2010-05-05 00:00 <qwebirc83180> hi, is there any possibility to implement wifi/bluetooth on Ben nanonote?
2010-05-05 00:00 <qwebirc83180> use usb wifi/bt dongle?
2010-05-05 00:04 <wolfspraul> spectec sdw-823 is a microSD wifi card
2010-05-05 00:04 <wolfspraul> but it's only recommended for hackers I'd say. too expensive.
2010-05-05 00:05 <wolfspraul> not even for hackers, only for people really crazy about it for some reason :-)
2010-05-05 00:06 <wolfspraul> qwebirc83180: one sec I'll find the link for you
2010-05-05 00:06 <wolfspraul> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_Wi-Fi
2010-05-05 00:06 <wolfspraul> you cannot use USB because USB on the Ben is client only, not host
2010-05-05 00:07 <wolfspraul> unless you talk to a host like the Neo FreeRunner which could in turn connect you to Wi-Fi/BT (I don't think anybody every tried that, also expensive and error prone)
2010-05-05 00:07 <wolfspraul> the spectec card is your best bet for wi-fi
2010-05-05 00:08 <wolfspraul> http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=140798
2010-05-05 00:25 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: thanks for your very detailed introduction!
2010-05-05 00:26 <qwebirc83180> and yes, microSD is very expensive, almost the same price as Ben
2010-05-05 00:34 <wolfspraul> qwebirc83180: yes, first I just tried to answer your question
2010-05-05 00:35 <wolfspraul> but depending on your background, maybe the easiest way to describe it is that if the Ben is not interesting to you without RF, then it's not interesting at all right now
2010-05-05 00:35 <wolfspraul> but of course that's up to you, since I don't know what your plans are :-)
2010-05-05 00:36 <wolfspraul> the best connectivity comes from the USB cable right now
2010-05-05 00:36 <wolfspraul> and we can still improve software quite a bit to get more out of what is theoretically possible there
2010-05-05 00:37 <wolfspraul> I use USB Ethernet to connect to my Nano, maybe we should work on how ethernet & mass-storage could co-exist. not sure that works yet or not.
2010-05-05 01:09 <qi-commits> Xiangfu Liu: [xbboot] rename docs to doc http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/18cac78
2010-05-05 01:09 <qi-commits> Xiangfu Liu: [debian] add xbboot manual to package http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/d411985
2010-05-05 01:09 <qi-commits> Xiangfu Liu: [xbboot] add xbboot manual file http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/1441403
2010-05-05 01:15 <tuxbrain> Any one have contact with pyneo guy/s?
2010-05-05 01:18 <wolfspraul> tuxbrain: I think it's emdete and/or josch_ ? I'm not sure... :-)
2010-05-05 01:25 <tuxbrain> ok, I hope they have listen me in make a rootfs tar.gz version to boot debian from uSD, can you emdet, josch_ ping me back about if its possible to have it?
2010-05-05 01:26 <wolfspraul> yes I hope we can document how the debian rootfs was created
2010-05-05 01:27 <wolfspraul> also I hope we can have a unified kernel between openwrt and debian, actually I think mirko is already working towards that
2010-05-05 01:39 <tuxbrain> will work once debian on usd on nand flashing/backup from sd and avr compile/flashing , maybe some java stuff too
2010-05-05 01:42 <tuxbrain> nand flashing from sd card might help windows guys to come in, due uSD card is the only interface they have to exchange data with BNN
2010-05-05 01:45 <tuxbrain> well they can also use serial console through Hyperterminal :P
2010-05-05 01:47 <tuxbrain> xianfu: what is the maximum size of the fat partition to boot from sdcard?
2010-05-05 01:48 <tuxbrain> xiangfu: what is the maximum size of the fat partition to boot from sdcard?
2010-05-05 01:52 <josch_> tuxbrain: hey
2010-05-05 01:52 <josch_> tuxbrain: the rootfs was created by me invoking debootstrap
2010-05-05 01:52 <josch_> tuxbrain: and by emdete running a few apt-gets
2010-05-05 01:52 <josch_> tuxbrain: no big magic there
2010-05-05 01:57 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: well, generally, Ben nanonote is good
2010-05-05 01:57 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: I intend to use Ben as a field programming platform for my robot
2010-05-05 01:58 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: so, if it has wireless then it's should be more better
2010-05-05 01:58 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: BTW: for dictionary and wiki storaeg, just 2GB storage is not enough
2010-05-05 01:58 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: at least 16GB internal storage should be provided
2010-05-05 01:59 <wolfspraul> qwebirc83180: true but that's just theoretical thinking :-)
2010-05-05 01:59 <wolfspraul> the Nanos we ship right now have a 40 MB rootfs on them
2010-05-05 01:59 <wolfspraul> that's not because we keep the other 98% free on purpose
2010-05-05 01:59 <wolfspraul> it's because we have not yet gotten to the point that we can fill up those 2 GB with valuable content, right from the factory
2010-05-05 01:59 <wolfspraul> so that's our first priority in terms of Ben
2010-05-05 02:00 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: and if I choose to use SD slot with Wifi, then I will lost possiblity to use external storage
2010-05-05 02:00 <wolfspraul> in parallel of course we are evaluating larger NAND chips, several people have 8 GB and 16 GB NAND chips
2010-05-05 02:00 <wolfspraul> yes correct, only one microSD
2010-05-05 02:00 <wolfspraul> btw 16 GB NAND chip is about 50 USD last time I checked
2010-05-05 02:01 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: too bad not wifi microSD vendor provide all in one solution for storage and wifi IO
2010-05-05 02:01 <wolfspraul> so our priority is to first max out what the Ben can do
2010-05-05 02:01 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: yes, very agree with you on this
2010-05-05 02:02 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: honestly, I didn't figure out any killer apps for Ben now :)
2010-05-05 02:03 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: but once it's integrated with wifi or bt, then ben will have varies purpose
2010-05-05 02:05 <wolfspraul> with killer app you mean something that could make you buy one?
2010-05-05 02:06 <wolfspraul> or you just try to say without RF you think nobody will buy? what's your point?
2010-05-05 02:06 <wolfspraul> btw I think both Wi-Fi and BT are old, complicated, power hungry and proprietary technologies
2010-05-05 02:07 <wolfspraul> I started using the Ben to take notes. works quite well.
2010-05-05 02:07 <wolfspraul> I wish I could use it as my alarm clock, but need to figure out a few more things for that first. Also I really really want to trust my alarm clock, otherwise I may miss a flight or important meeting :-)
2010-05-05 02:08 <wolfspraul> also I want to use it as dictation device, to record from the microphone
2010-05-05 02:12 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: oh, Ben still can sell without RF, but I guess it might sell better if equipped with RF
2010-05-05 02:12 <wolfspraul> for sure, the more the better
2010-05-05 02:13 <wolfspraul> although price is also important, and integrating is costly
2010-05-05 02:13 <wolfspraul> but yeah I wish we would sell more units, create more capital, invest the capital in better technolgoy, etc.
2010-05-05 02:13 <wolfspraul> we are working on that...
2010-05-05 02:13 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: em, so some protential user might wait till Spectec SDW-823 get much cheaper
2010-05-05 02:13 <wolfspraul> it will never get cheaper
2010-05-05 02:14 <qwebirc83180> so why not integrate RF part into Ben or BenII as a plan B?
2010-05-05 02:14 <wolfspraul> what we need to do is to integrate ourselves, and that's costly
2010-05-05 02:14 <wolfspraul> oh we are working on Ya NanoNote already
2010-05-05 02:15 <wolfspraul> in fact every software improvement on Ben will help Ya too, so the software work on Ben is also towards Ya
2010-05-05 02:15 <wolfspraul> for RF there are several options, GPS, Marvell module, HopeRF module
2010-05-05 02:15 <wolfspraul> but it will take time, I wouldn't expect the Ya NanoNote to come out for at least 6 months
2010-05-05 02:16 <wolfspraul> we need to sell some Ben first, and to do that we need to get more of the hardware performance out to the user
2010-05-05 02:16 <wolfspraul> which many people are working on, luckily... :-)
2010-05-05 02:16 <qwebirc83180> sigh, it will come out next year
2010-05-05 02:16 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: BTW: are you based in Beijing?
2010-05-05 02:16 <wolfspraul> yes
2010-05-05 02:16 <wolfspraul> why 'sigh' - you want it earlier?
2010-05-05 02:17 <wolfspraul> the work on Ben benefits the next device
2010-05-05 02:17 <wolfspraul> progress is quite good, but quality needs a bit of time
2010-05-05 02:17 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: yes, I want it earlier, I used to expected Ben can reach Ya's spec
2010-05-05 02:17 <wolfspraul> just got Debian to work on the Ben, which is great
2010-05-05 02:17 <wolfspraul> one by one
2010-05-05 02:18 <wolfspraul> if our current software can only utilize a small percentage of what the HW could do, why improve the HW specs?
2010-05-05 02:18 <qwebirc83180> OK, shall I visit your local office in Beijing ?
2010-05-05 02:18 <wolfspraul> makes no sense to me
2010-05-05 02:18 <wolfspraul> we will focus on getting more out of the HW
2010-05-05 02:18 <wolfspraul> and there is a lot more it could do...
2010-05-05 02:19 <qwebirc83180> em, indeed
2010-05-05 02:20 <qwebirc83180> wolfspraul: I might buy Ben and also expect for a field trail :) so can I visit your local office in Beijing and have a face to face talk?
2010-05-05 03:02 <vegyraupe> mirko: ping
2010-05-05 03:03 <josch_> hm
2010-05-05 03:03 <vegyraupe> it's a bit early for him I guess
2010-05-05 03:10 <mirko> vegyraupe, pong
2010-05-05 03:11 <vegyraupe> mirko: aaaaaah :) do you know if the proto that josch_ has, ever actually worked?
2010-05-05 03:11 <vegyraupe> mirko: if so can you get him the image that was flashed and such?
2010-05-05 03:12 <josch_> vegyraupe: it did work
2010-05-05 03:12 <josch_> vegyraupe: it bootet with the OS that was on there when i got it
2010-05-05 03:13 <josch_> vegyraupe: never did i suspect it would fail to boot if i would reflash it
2010-05-05 03:13 <mirko> it worked
2010-05-05 03:13 <mirko> josch_, do you use the the right xburst-tools/usbboot?
2010-05-05 03:13 <vegyraupe> mirko, josch_: ok 2 vs one here, as long as you guys figure it out I am habby :P
2010-05-05 03:15 <josch_> mirko: i didnt know there was a wrong version
2010-05-05 03:15 <mirko> josch_, there is one for the prototypes (as it just has 1 gb of nand flash) and the one for the official ones with 2 gb
2010-05-05 03:16 <josch_> but flashing went fine when i used the provided deb binary
2010-05-05 03:19 <josch_> brb taking a shower
2010-05-05 03:25 <xiangfu> tuxbrain, not sure. the mmc driver in u-boot is not good. so I think the sd card < 2GB is always work.
2010-05-05 03:27 <mirko> josch_, yeah, with the wrong offset
2010-05-05 03:28 <mirko> divide every offsets used in the official reflash-script for the ben by 2 for your version
2010-05-05 03:29 <mirko> oops, times 2 (*2) - not devided
2010-05-05 03:29 <mirko> so the kernel starts at offset 1024 on the ben, for you it starts at 2048
2010-05-05 03:29 <mirko> same with the rootfs (2048 -> 4096)
2010-05-05 03:29 <mirko> have to go to university
2010-05-05 03:36 <josch_> oh
2010-05-05 03:36 <josch_> hrm...
2010-05-05 03:36 <josch_> mirko: i already did that
2010-05-05 03:36 <josch_> mirko: larsc told me to
2010-05-05 03:36 <vegyraupe> josch_: the easiest would be to get a Ben or an AVT2 ;)
2010-05-05 03:36 <josch_> vegyraupe: :P
2010-05-05 03:37 <josch_> brb classes
2010-05-05 03:37 <vegyraupe> josch_: ack
2010-05-05 03:43 <josch_> re
2010-05-05 03:43 <josch_> likes to live close to the lecture hall :D
2010-05-05 03:45 <vegyraupe> :D
2010-05-05 04:47 <vegyraupe> zedstar: ping
2010-05-05 04:47 <zedstar> vegyraupe pong!
2010-05-05 04:48 <vegyraupe> zedstar: hey :) how is the project wrt education on the Ben coming along?
2010-05-05 04:49 <zedstar> vegyraupe well waiting to hear back from a demo submission to a conference.......i was getting guile working properly recently with command line history.....have a makefile u can try in your build
2010-05-05 04:52 <vegyraupe> zedstar: if it works we should get it into the feed
2010-05-05 04:54 <zedstar> vegyraupe yeh the one currently you have is disabled
2010-05-05 05:00 <vegyraupe> zedstar: is the edu project dependent on the conference ?
2010-05-05 05:01 <zedstar> vegyraupe no...just steps really to improve chances of getting proper funding and get the word out
2010-05-05 05:04 <zedstar> vegyraupe sujan has access to a bunch of libraries in nepal now that have wikireaders....need to get some nanonotes through that channel also i guess
2010-05-05 05:05 <vegyraupe> zedstar: ok, let me know if there is anything we can do to help
2010-05-05 05:07 <zedstar> vegyraupe sure thanks
2010-05-05 05:08 <zedstar> vegyraupe in terms of apps i would like to have a crack at PDF search engine with SDL interface to trigger nupdf....hopefully over summer i can have a go
2010-05-05 05:10 <vegyraupe> you want to search in a pdf?
2010-05-05 05:11 <zedstar> vegyraupe yeh can do with hyper estrairer just need decent interface
2010-05-05 05:11 <vegyraupe> oh, that does sound interesting
2010-05-05 05:11 <zedstar> it triggers pdftotext and search inside
2010-05-05 05:12 <zedstar> so can have thousands of pdf and find what u need quickly
2010-05-05 05:13 <zedstar> has a nice c api to do the searching etc
2010-05-05 05:13 <vegyraupe> u think the Ben is fast enough?
2010-05-05 05:14 <zedstar> well...indexing is the slow part
2010-05-05 05:14 <zedstar> but once indexed should be ok i think
2010-05-05 05:14 <zedstar> the search engine is pretty optimised
2010-05-05 05:15 <zedstar> written in c
2010-05-05 05:15 <zedstar> but yeh be interesting to see how it performs
2010-05-05 05:16 <vegyraupe> hm ok
2010-05-05 05:16 <zedstar> what would be kewl though is a decent interface to page between search results
2010-05-05 05:17 <vegyraupe> zedstar: I haven't done any sdl coding yet
2010-05-05 05:17 <vegyraupe> but it probably isn't too hard either, and we can always nag wejp to give us hints ;)
2010-05-05 05:17 <zedstar> ive just fiddled with some demos
2010-05-05 05:17 <zedstar> nice api tho
2010-05-05 05:17 <zedstar> but lot of work
2010-05-05 05:17 <zedstar> compared to gui toolkits
2010-05-05 05:18 <vegyraupe> but the speed is good
2010-05-05 05:18 <zedstar> yeh.....im really keen on some nintendo ds style gui's on the ben instead of widgets
2010-05-05 05:28 <mirko> larsc, ping
2010-05-05 05:28 <vegyraupe> zedstar: haven't seen the ds interface
2010-05-05 05:47 <tuxbrain> trying to mount the ubi file but I don't get the point :(
2010-05-05 08:27 <dmarschal> hello!
2010-05-05 08:27 <dmarschal> I'm about to update wiki with a NN compatible battery
2010-05-05 08:28 <dmarschal> how can I upload a picture
2010-05-05 08:28 <zear> dmarschal, first you need to create an account on the wiki if you don't have it already
2010-05-05 08:29 <dmarschal> zear: thank you. I have an account  and I'm logged in.
2010-05-05 08:29 <zear> then click on the "toolbox" tab on the left and choose "upload file"
2010-05-05 08:35 <qi-commits> Lars-Peter Clausen: Move methods only used by dialogs from the GMenu2x class to a common base class http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/6da573f
2010-05-05 08:35 <qi-commits> Lars-Peter Clausen: Speed up isActive() http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/cb654dd
2010-05-05 08:36 <dmarschal> zear: thank you. I just updated the wiki. (-:
2010-05-05 08:37 <zear> no prob :)
2010-05-05 10:22 <kristianpaul> morning
2010-05-05 10:25 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: morning
2010-05-05 12:02 <kristianpaul> zear: there?
2010-05-05 12:03 <zear> kristianpaul, yep
2010-05-05 12:03 <kristianpaul> i'm confused a bit, the gcc package in the opnwrt svn is a gcc that can be compiled for the target arch?
2010-05-05 12:04 <kristianpaul> i want cross-compile gcc for the nano
2010-05-05 12:04 <zear> umm.. i'm not sure which gcc do you reffer to
2010-05-05 12:04 <zear> you want to crosscompile stuff for the nano, or compile natively on nano?
2010-05-05 12:05 <kristianpaul> compile natively on nano
2010-05-05 12:06 <zear> ah, then i don't know if we have an owrt package for native gcc
2010-05-05 12:06 <kristianpaul> hmm
2010-05-05 12:06 <kristianpaul> openqrt does have it?
2010-05-05 12:06 <zear> maybe, i don't know
2010-05-05 12:06 <larsc> yes
2010-05-05 12:06 <kristianpaul> hmm
2010-05-05 12:07 <kristianpaul> larsc: ahev you tried gcc nativelly?
2010-05-05 12:07 <larsc> not on the nanonote
2010-05-05 12:07 <kristianpaul> wher?
2010-05-05 12:07 <kristianpaul> what steps you follow in that device?
2010-05-05 12:10 <larsc> hm, looks lile that the gcc package depends on TARGET_x86
2010-05-05 12:10 <kristianpaul> yup
2010-05-05 12:10 <larsc> not sure if it will work if you remove that dependency
2010-05-05 12:10 <kristianpaul> hehe
2010-05-05 12:11 <kristianpaul> cause i guess crosscompile gcc for openwrt will be a madness :/
2010-05-05 12:12 <kristianpaul> ahh better learn lua anyway :)
2010-05-05 12:15 <lekernel> kristianpaul, well, no, usually it works
2010-05-05 12:31 <lekernel> kristianpaul, there is also the "dirty" solution of using binaries from another distro (debian mips for example)
2010-05-05 12:31 <kristianpaul> hehe yes i was thinking that too
2010-05-05 12:32 <kristianpaul> si he estadomirnado los makefiles
2010-05-05 12:32 <kristianpaul> ops
2010-05-05 12:33 <gnufs> gcc on nano is certainly not complete madness
2010-05-05 12:33 <kristianpaul> is not
2010-05-05 12:33 <gnufs> and would be quite nifty
2010-05-05 12:34 <kristianpaul> i just need review how to to make the Mkafeile wich seems easy (checing one right now)
2010-05-05 13:04 <kristianpaul> ahh i founded it
2010-05-05 13:05 <kristianpaul> in Advanced Options for developers there is toolchain menu
2010-05-05 13:05 <kristianpaul> seems it will built in image..
2010-05-05 13:05 <kristianpaul> lets see
2010-05-05 13:25 <kristianpaul> http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/Toolchains :)
2010-05-05 14:06 <kristianpaul> oh 500 nanos out there?
2010-05-05 14:06 <kristianpaul> :)
2010-05-05 14:15 <jxself> I wonder what they're all doing...
2010-05-05 14:20 <gnufs> sitting idly
2010-05-05 16:42 <kristianpaul> tuxbrain_away: there?
2010-05-05 16:42 <kristianpaul> maybe..
2010-05-05 16:42 <tuxbrain_away> quit busy but yes :)
2010-05-05 16:42 <tuxbrain_away> quite
2010-05-05 16:42 <kristianpaul> is about serial port
2010-05-05 16:42 <kristianpaul> did  you finally use wich?
2010-05-05 16:44 <tuxbrain_away> Tp4 & Tp5
2010-05-05 16:44 <kristianpaul> ohh
2010-05-05 16:44 <kristianpaul> but those are implemended by the kernel as another port
2010-05-05 16:46 <tuxbrain_away> not by kernel by uboot, I have a uboot with the patch of Xianfu enabling them as serial that will be included in next realease, so surelly is also uploaded in git
2010-05-05 16:47 <tuxbrain_away> is same port UART0 but without keyboard interference
2010-05-05 16:47 <kristianpaul> hmm i need it
2010-05-05 16:47 <kristianpaul> so i can test a gps i have
2010-05-05 16:47 <kristianpaul> i alrady have the gps sofware but neet to be sure uart will work
2010-05-05 16:48 <kristianpaul> so the default serial in nano will give me troubles even if i use S key at poweron with uboot?
2010-05-05 16:48 <kristianpaul> i can avoid use keyboard and do all by ssh
2010-05-05 16:48 <kristianpaul> if this is a problem right now
2010-05-05 17:33 <tuxbrain_away> kristianpaul, well as long as you don't touch any key I thing you might do you test, but I will recoment to use Tp4 and TP5 instead,  use the following uboot to do so, http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-u-boot.bin
2010-05-05 17:34 <tuxbrain_away> let us informed about you progress, gps is one of the things I would love to see attached to BNN
2010-05-05 17:34 <kristianpaul> i know
2010-05-05 17:35 <kristianpaul> i want do gps mapping do with the nano :)
2010-05-05 17:39 <kristianpaul> too
2010-05-05 17:39 <kristianpaul> *
2010-05-05 17:45 <tuxbrain_away> my itention is to make it advice me about near traffic radars and if I'm avobe the allowed speed in the car, even if there is radar or not.
2010-05-05 17:47 <kristianpaul> oh
2010-05-05 18:28 <sid_> hi, something with my toolchain is wrong....
2010-05-05 18:28 <sid_> --> gentoo
2010-05-05 18:29 <sid_> file orig: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, MIPS, MIPS32 version 1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), corrupted section header size
2010-05-05 18:29 <sid_> file my: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, MIPS, MIPS32 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), with unknown capability 0xf41 = 0x756e6700, stripped
2010-05-05 18:30 <sid_> sysv should not be; does someone know whats wrong?