2010-04-30 01:05 larsc: can you tell me which registers on the giantplus side are undocumented? 2010-04-30 01:05 I can test their willingness to share more documentation with us :-) 2010-04-30 04:17 morning 2010-04-30 04:18 http://aligunduz.org/img/nanonote/timetravelunix.jpg 2010-04-30 04:23 vegyraupe: believe it or not, the digital picture frame is on the way to you! 2010-04-30 04:23 DHL just picked it up... 2010-04-30 04:24 gnufs: nice picture :-) 2010-04-30 04:24 can you upload it to the wiki, http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Special:Upload 2010-04-30 04:24 wolfspraul: the display is super stable now. even without setting the undocumented registers 2010-04-30 04:25 wolfspraul: wow! great! yippie! 2010-04-30 04:25 larsc: oh, why that? 2010-04-30 04:26 larsc: about more recent kernel versions, I read somewhere 2.6.33 introduced something called 'compressed memory'. could this be helpful on the ben? 2010-04-30 04:27 wolfspraul: i used their init sequence, just without the undocumented registers 2010-04-30 04:27 hmm, OK 2010-04-30 04:27 wolfspraul: yes, it can be used and i've already been looking into it. 2010-04-30 04:27 if you can tell me the numbers of undocumented registers I can still ask 2010-04-30 04:28 wolfspraul: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Timetravelunix.jpg 2010-04-30 04:28 hey wolfspraul, what's with that CECT C3100 phone? 2010-04-30 04:28 are you planning to port linux to it? 2010-04-30 04:28 ah yes 2010-04-30 04:28 wolfspraul: register numbers 0xac, 0x96, 0x97 2010-04-30 04:29 zear: another thing on my list first - you mentioned a jlime meeting in poland. Can you add it to http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Qi:Current_events 2010-04-30 04:29 so the C3100 2010-04-30 04:29 puh, bit of a long story 2010-04-30 04:29 wolfspraul, i'll do it as fast as i get sure it's official and everyone is welcome 2010-04-30 04:29 Qi is copyleft hardware, not just Ben NanoNote 2010-04-30 04:29 we are interested in adding GPS, see the talk about a Garmin-like device for OSM 2010-04-30 04:30 and of course also interested in phones 2010-04-30 04:30 yeah, i realize 2010-04-30 04:30 so we are following osmocombb 2010-04-30 04:30 that's why I ask - is it planned to be a linux phone? 2010-04-30 04:30 for now osmocom uses ti calypso and maybe locosto chipsets to hack into 2010-04-30 04:30 but harald has an eye on mtk as well 2010-04-30 04:30 so when he asked on the list I offered a bit of MTK research support, since I just happened to be in shenzhen 2010-04-30 04:31 if you guys ever manage to port linux to a similar phone and still keep it at the low price, i'll definitely buy one 2010-04-30 04:31 or even two 2010-04-30 04:31 i always wanted to have a linux phone that looks like a phone and works like a phone, unlike freerunner ;) 2010-04-30 04:32 http://lists.osmocom.org/pipermail/baseband-devel/2010-April/000364.html 2010-04-30 04:33 zear: you would have to buy more like 50K and become a big disti for Poland :-) 2010-04-30 04:33 but yes, I share your sentiments and of course we work on this stuff 2010-04-30 04:33 haha, not gonna happen ;D 2010-04-30 04:33 who knows 2010-04-30 04:33 if I can sell you these phones for 15 USD a piece, and we can get really functional software on it, you might find people in Poland that are very interested in financing it all. like large retail chains etc. 2010-04-30 04:34 but lots of pieces are missing still 2010-04-30 04:34 if it had features like encrypted calls and texts 2010-04-30 04:34 then it would probably sell good 2010-04-30 04:34 so one by one 2010-04-30 04:34 osmocom is being developed 2010-04-30 04:34 it's a long long way 2010-04-30 04:34 I'm actually somewhat doubtful about the GSM stacks since they are huge and moving forward 2010-04-30 04:35 but the project is great still, and if I can support it a bit from the MTK side I'm happy to do that 2010-04-30 04:35 this is 'alpha' stage though 2010-04-30 04:35 so it's gonna take years, eh? 2010-04-30 04:35 yes 2010-04-30 04:35 realistically 2010-04-30 04:35 actually the Ben is a step there 2010-04-30 04:35 still, it's something really interesting 2010-04-30 04:35 you just need to see all the pieces 2010-04-30 04:36 but unfortunately there are lots of pieces 2010-04-30 04:36 that's why the SAKC, even Milkymist One, Elphel cameras, etc. all fit into this 2010-04-30 04:36 we'll see 2010-04-30 04:36 so for this wiki page, yes I bought some of those phones, and tried to see how cheap & fast I can dig into the PCB 2010-04-30 04:36 was quite successful 2010-04-30 04:36 I basically found a shop on the street that can do what you see on that wiki page for 100 USD in 2 days or so 2010-04-30 04:37 is it a form of reverse engineering? 2010-04-30 04:37 I'm not going to distinguish between forward engineering and reverse engineering. 2010-04-30 04:37 I only do forward engineering :-) 2010-04-30 04:37 I buy phones, then I take apart my property. 2010-04-30 04:38 those pictures are lined up in physical order, i.e. you can zoom through the product 2010-04-30 04:38 i can only imagine how many iphones that company gets for taking apart :D 2010-04-30 04:38 not many 2010-04-30 04:38 no point 2010-04-30 04:39 there is not that much design work in the PCB anyway 2010-04-30 04:39 to produce cheap ripoff, i guess ;) 2010-04-30 04:39 no no 2010-04-30 04:39 it's all different than you think :-) 2010-04-30 04:39 ah 2010-04-30 04:40 so anyway, did this explain the C3100 page in the wiki? 2010-04-30 04:40 well, yeah, the PCB is completely different in the ripoffs, they just use the same form factor and look like the originals 2010-04-30 04:40 i guess so :) 2010-04-30 04:40 it's a support effort for a neighboring project, osmocombb 2010-04-30 04:40 we'd love to do just what you are asking for 2010-04-30 04:40 a phone that looks like a phone, and runs 100% free Linux 2010-04-30 04:41 believe it or not, by buying a nanonote, and hacking on it, and helping us with kernel, apps, Debian, etc. you are contributing towards that direction 2010-04-30 04:41 at least I hope so, and we don't die before reaching the goal :-) 2010-04-30 04:42 :D 2010-04-30 04:42 just don't follow the way of openpandora and you'll be fine ;) 2010-04-30 04:42 what did they do wrong? 2010-04-30 04:43 taking preorders for unexistant hardware 2010-04-30 04:43 it's about 3 years since they started the preorders 2010-04-30 04:43 and they still don't have a finished product 2010-04-30 04:43 yeah, that really sucks 2010-04-30 04:43 and in the meanwhile many people resigned 2010-04-30 04:43 also they are not building open source hardware, so you can't really compare that anyway 2010-04-30 04:43 and they had to return their preorder money back 2010-04-30 04:44 zear, wejp: the problem is not the way they finance the project, but the fact that they had no idea what they were getting it to 2010-04-30 04:44 it = in 2010-04-30 04:44 vegyraupe, yes you are right, that is the biggest problem there 2010-04-30 04:44 i agree 2010-04-30 04:45 if you don't wanna be dependent on some ppl with big money you have to find alternative ways 2010-04-30 04:45 and I like the approach of community supported development better and better 2010-04-30 04:45 btw, when can we expect any public information about how are the bens selling? 2010-04-30 04:45 of course with modifications to OP's way, but the same general idea 2010-04-30 04:46 vegyraupe, yes, but in case of "open pandora" except the money they took for the preorders from the community, there hasn't been ver much influence on the actual product by the community 2010-04-30 04:46 wejp: as I said with modifications ;) 2010-04-30 04:46 I would see the community as the customer 2010-04-30 04:46 so the customer creates specs 2010-04-30 04:46 not that i don't like the hardware design, i do, but still, it was only a very small group of people building a handheld console 2010-04-30 04:46 the company makes an offer 2010-04-30 04:47 and then the customer looks over it 2010-04-30 04:47 and the two parties agree to a plan 2010-04-30 04:47 yyeah 2010-04-30 04:47 when modifications need to be made 2010-04-30 04:47 it goes back to the customer for a decission 2010-04-30 04:47 and of course the customer wouldn't pay the whole sum up front 2010-04-30 04:48 but only part of it to finance development 2010-04-30 04:48 problem with the pandora was, it turned out to be even more expensive than what they got through the preorders 2010-04-30 04:49 i don't follow them that closely 2010-04-30 04:49 but I am sure if that happened than probably because they hadn't done anything like that before 2010-04-30 04:50 yes 2010-04-30 04:50 and considering that, it is actually amazing what they built 2010-04-30 04:50 of course it is 2010-04-30 04:51 i thinkit is a very good proof of concept and commendable that they even tried 2010-04-30 04:51 zear: we sold about 500 Ben so far 2010-04-30 04:51 wolfspraul, of how many in total? 2010-04-30 04:51 which is a good start, roughly in line with my estimates. Problem will be to sustain it now, which depends on improving software. 2010-04-30 04:51 zear: first batch we made 1000 2010-04-30 04:51 i guess that's a good result? 2010-04-30 04:52 we are taking all this very carefully 2010-04-30 04:52 oh 500 sold out of 1000 isn't bad :) 2010-04-30 04:52 we are spending a lot of time to visiting vendors, digging deeper into the production process 2010-04-30 04:52 well we need to sell all 1000 2010-04-30 04:52 and then the second 1000 2010-04-30 04:52 etc 2010-04-30 04:52 :-) 2010-04-30 04:52 sure :) 2010-04-30 04:52 also drive price further down 2010-04-30 04:56 i'm sure a future nanonote version which comes with wireless included would sell much better as this seems to be what most people interested in the device complain about in the first place. i for myself would be fine with just having usb host port (preferably a type a connector on the device), but internal wireless would be nice too 2010-04-30 04:59 my current Ya NanoNote looks like Ben, but 4760 CPU, USB On-The-Go, more RAM (maximum supported by one chip), hopeRF RF module 2010-04-30 04:59 but who knows it's all moving 2010-04-30 05:00 the seeds are growing 2010-04-30 05:00 how much RAM does the CPU support? 2010-04-30 05:00 which one? 2010-04-30 05:00 the goal now is to max out the Ben 2010-04-30 05:00 the one you've chosen for the Ya 2010-04-30 05:00 don't know 2010-04-30 05:00 for one it support mobile DDR 2010-04-30 05:00 finaly 2010-04-30 05:00 Ben has SDRAM 2010-04-30 05:01 Hi all 2010-04-30 05:01 wejp: 'chosen' is the wrong word, we haven't chosen anything 2010-04-30 05:01 focus now is Ben 2010-04-30 05:01 btw, the cpu speed of the ben which i would least complain about, memory bus is a little thin but cpu speed is fine 2010-04-30 05:01 what is a rf module? some sort of a wireless radio? 2010-04-30 05:01 we need to show that we can bring out the performance of the HW to the normal end user 2010-04-30 05:01 wolfspraul: yeah, i understand, i meant just the configuration you spoke about :) 2010-04-30 05:02 zear: yes 2010-04-30 05:02 there were some mails about it on the list. just being evaluated right now, together with many other things... 2010-04-30 05:02 so you are going with USB OTG to be able to keep the same case? 2010-04-30 05:02 yeah, read the mails already 2010-04-30 05:03 but i don't really understand the idea behind it ;) 2010-04-30 05:04 zear: what do you mean with "don't understand"? 2010-04-30 05:04 well, what it could be used for 2010-04-30 05:05 is this a well know and popular standard, that many devices use? 2010-04-30 05:05 *known 2010-04-30 05:06 otg? 2010-04-30 05:06 on the go, can pair two otg devices without a need of usb host 2010-04-30 05:06 no, i was wondering if you were asking about otg 2010-04-30 05:07 not only that, you can also attach a usb slave device to a usb otg capable device 2010-04-30 05:07 no, i was asking about the RF 2010-04-30 05:07 i was asking about otg, if it has been "chosen" to be able to keep the ben nanonote case 2010-04-30 05:07 wejp, so how is it different than a host then? 2010-04-30 05:08 zear, it can also run as normal slave mode, and the connector is usually the small slave port, not the large type A port 2010-04-30 05:08 wejp, that means it requires a mini>normal converter 2010-04-30 05:08 otg is basically a host and a device behind a inteligent transiver which decides which one is to use 2010-04-30 05:08 i have one and it's like 2,5cm big 2010-04-30 05:09 zear, yes 2010-04-30 05:09 that's why i would prefer a USB A type port on the device, but i understand if this will not be done, to keep the ben case as it is 2010-04-30 05:09 yep 2010-04-30 05:34 wejp: do you have any plans on making gmu playing videos as well? 2010-04-30 05:34 ha, that would be cool 2010-04-30 05:35 zear: +1 :) 2010-04-30 05:35 vegyraupe, but you mean a video support written from scratch, or some kind of a gui for mplayer? 2010-04-30 05:36 zear: no idea about the details :) 2010-04-30 05:36 vegyraupe: writing a video plaer isn't a simple task, so it requires a lot of work to do that 2010-04-30 05:36 i'm not sure yet, if i'll do that. maybe i'll put some work into videoplaying when it is mostly feature-complete from the musicplayer point of view. 2010-04-30 05:37 it is mostly feature-complete music player already :) 2010-04-30 05:37 zear, it it mostly is, there are only a few things left, i would like to add :) 2010-04-30 05:37 :) 2010-04-30 05:39 and if you have every looked at ffmpeg (which one could use for creating a video player), you probably know that even doing very simple things with that library are rather complicated to say at least 2010-04-30 05:39 s/every/ever 2010-04-30 05:39 yeah, i always have to study the manual before i do anything with it 2010-04-30 05:40 and that does not even involve putting a video on the screen yet 2010-04-30 05:40 which also needs to be done, and it needs to be done in a fast way 2010-04-30 05:40 just wanted to spark the thought :) 2010-04-30 05:40 then, ou need to keep video and audio in sync... 2010-04-30 05:40 hehe, yeah, that's fine :) 2010-04-30 05:41 oh, i didn't even know there's a "ffplay" 2010-04-30 05:41 i just wanted to point out that this is a rather long way to go, if i want to do that ^^ 2010-04-30 05:41 should it be faster than mplayer? 2010-04-30 05:41 coz then one could create a "mediaplayer" which comes with gmu as the graphical interface :) 2010-04-30 05:41 zear, not necessarily 2010-04-30 05:41 create here: build 2010-04-30 05:42 vegyraupe that could be an option, but i don't like it that much becaue until now, Gmu is a stand-alone player that does not need an external program to play stuff 2010-04-30 05:42 of course you need some librarries but it doesn't call external programs 2010-04-30 05:43 external programs? 2010-04-30 05:43 write your own video processing lib then :D 2010-04-30 05:43 well, i'll think about the whole video stuff a little  :) 2010-04-30 05:43 wejp: by mediaplayer I meant a physical device 2010-04-30 05:43 zear, hehe, yeah, if i find the time to do that :D 2010-04-30 05:44 vegyraupe, oh, ok i see :) 2010-04-30 05:44 my sis bought one of these 2010-04-30 05:44 sized as a cheap digi cam 2010-04-30 05:44 with a screen 2010-04-30 05:44 and earplugs 2010-04-30 05:44 i agree that it would be nice to use the same interface for all media formats 2010-04-30 05:44 and all it does is play videos and music 2010-04-30 05:44 and the avt2 boards and even teh ben is not too far away from that 2010-04-30 05:45 eah 2010-04-30 05:45 y 2010-04-30 05:45 argh, my y button works only every second time i hit it or so 2010-04-30 05:47 vegyraupe, weird thing is, that even with ingenics patches and with an ipu, mplayer on the dingoo is really, really slow 2010-04-30 05:47 you can't play anything greater than 320x240 without lags 2010-04-30 05:48 the video player from the default firmware isn't much better though 2010-04-30 05:48 well, mplayer has to scale everything to 320x240 anyway, but it's more convinient to just let it play a dvd quality movie than to fiddle with ffmpeg and convert it to 320x240 2010-04-30 05:48 zear: that's not quite my department ;) 2010-04-30 05:48 :P 2010-04-30 05:48 not to mention a nononote, which has less available ram 2010-04-30 05:48 *nanonote 2010-04-30 05:49 does the nanonote cpu even have the ipu? 2010-04-30 05:49 hmm.. no idea 2010-04-30 05:49 it does have those SIMD instructions, but the IPU is an entirely different thing 2010-04-30 05:49 i think only the 4740 has it not the 4720, but i could be wrong 2010-04-30 05:53 both have it 2010-04-30 05:53 yeah, just checked the datasheet, you are right 2010-04-30 05:53 the only real difference between 4720 and 4740 is the form factor and the pin which are available 2010-04-30 05:55 still, if the dingoo has problems with playing videos it will be a real challenge to get that working on the nanonote. the dingoo has twice the memory bandwith compared to the nanonote :| 2010-04-30 05:55 d 2010-04-30 05:55 ingenics mplayer compiled for the nanonote using dingux toolchain just segfaults for me :P 2010-04-30 05:55 mh 2010-04-30 05:56 do you know where it segfaults? 2010-04-30 05:56 same with the binary some other guy from the community compiled and claimed it worked for his ben 2010-04-30 05:56 video conversation yummy yummy 2010-04-30 05:56 :D 2010-04-30 05:56 wejp, nope, didn't bother bugtracing it 2010-04-30 05:56 ok 2010-04-30 05:56 need valgrind on the ben :D 2010-04-30 05:56 *bug tracking 2010-04-30 05:57 i heard valgrind is good, it helped my coder to track one nasty bug with the Tower of Gowno for the pacc contest 2010-04-30 05:57 we couldn't find it with either gdb or strace 2010-04-30 05:57 yes, valgrind is a great tool 2010-04-30 05:58 i like it much better than stupid gdb 2010-04-30 09:28 good morning 2010-04-30 09:28 I have a little question 2010-04-30 09:28 how can I return to console from gmenu2x? 2010-04-30 09:30 cain_, CTRL + ALT + F1. 2010-04-30 09:30 thanks xiangfu 2010-04-30 09:33 cain_,  you can edit /etc/inittab. remove the "tty5/6/7/8" 2010-04-30 09:33 cain_, then you can go back to gmenu2x by CTRL+ALT+F5 2010-04-30 09:34 cain_, you are welcome. 2010-04-30 10:11 hey would it be possible to add a Pointing stick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick to future models of the NanoNote, that would make it awesome! 2010-04-30 10:23 i like that idea :) 2010-04-30 10:24 me too, though do we really have a place for it? 2010-04-30 10:24 well maybe not in the middle of the keyboard, but rather above it between speaker an microphone 2010-04-30 10:25 i would like that better than a touchscreen 2010-04-30 10:25 yeah, unless there's something on the PCB in there 2010-04-30 10:25 same 2010-04-30 10:25 yeah, not sure if it is, but shouldn't be difficult to find out :) 2010-04-30 15:09 if anyone's interested, i'll be doing a proper release of nupdf later tonight 2010-04-30 15:11 darfgarf: hui, cool 2010-04-30 15:16 darfgarf: Yay!!! I was waiting for this :) 2010-04-30 15:16 sorry for taking so long, the competition judging dragged on 2010-04-30 15:16 (came 9th) 2010-04-30 15:17 I have not understand a word about you have said :P 2010-04-30 15:18 tha's ok XD  nothing important 2010-04-30 15:19 not pushing at all, but you will do a Makefile to proper include on next distro? 2010-04-30 15:19 tuxbrain, the pacc competiton darfgarf (and me) participeted in has finished the 31th march, but the results of the contest were announced today 2010-04-30 15:20 ok :) 2010-04-30 15:20 btw, is it "on 31th" or "at 31th" or yet somehow different? :P 2010-04-30 15:20 tuxbrain: maybe, but i don't know much/anything about packaging for openwrt, and it's 1 month until exams start   (zear, 31st :P) 2010-04-30 15:21 so "the" wasn't needed as well? :P 2010-04-30 15:21 the 31st yes 2010-04-30 15:21 or you could ignore it 2010-04-30 15:21 so i was right after all, hooray for me! ;P 2010-04-30 15:22 darfgarf: Ok, just make it compile and tell us what are the dependencies, someone (maybe me) will do the work of doing the Makefile, I think this is a key piece of soft for nano 2010-04-30 15:22 i suck at prepositions :P 2010-04-30 15:23 darfgarf, owrt toolchain is a nightmare to set up 2010-04-30 15:23 tuxbrain: i'll include the compile scripts i use, and also compile it statically, so it can just be dropped in and used 2010-04-30 15:23 it's not as simple as throwing it to /opt and exporthing the path 2010-04-30 15:24 btw tuxbrain, is there any pdf reader for the wiz? 2010-04-30 15:24 zear: so it can wait or be done by someone else, i shouldn't even be touching it but it's the end of the week and i haven't stopped work at all 2010-04-30 15:24 i could recompile nupdf for it 2010-04-30 15:24 zear: think there is 2010-04-30 15:24 look up Mipdf 2010-04-30 15:25 zear, really I dont understand why you have the need of move the tolchain , it's easier to do the Makefile really 2010-04-30 15:25 darfgarf, ah, you're right 2010-04-30 15:25 tuxbrain, because i want to just export the path and run ./configure --host= --target= 2010-04-30 15:25 and with the owrt toolchain you have to manually edit the makefiles becuse libs are located in an unusual place 2010-04-30 15:25 (the whole toolchain is divided in two dirs) 2010-04-30 15:27 I supose is an advantage being an ignorant in this case, cause I 'm not used to  compile in anyway , anyway is fine for me :) 2010-04-30 15:28 i might be wrong after all 2010-04-30 15:29 i hope i am and there's an easy way to set up owrt toolchain :) 2010-04-30 15:29 meh, i'll put it as a todo at the end of a very very long list of things 2010-04-30 15:30 :P 2010-04-30 15:31 owrt is thinked to do full firmware and I think is good for that porpouse, I might recognize is not such ergonomic for individual ports, but in the long run (make things manteinable on time) I think is a better aproach 2010-04-30 15:31 yeah, i agree to that 2010-04-30 15:31 but that also means you need to set up every single new port to work with it 2010-04-30 15:31 and that takes time 2010-04-30 15:32 and keep it compatible with the dingoo at the same time 2010-04-30 15:32 it's just a matter of a makefile 2010-04-30 15:32 though that's just doing things in a slightly different way really 2010-04-30 15:32 if you have one single makefile for your project, it should be compatible with both the dingoo and owrt 2010-04-30 15:32 I hope we should find a way to make two words compatible 2010-04-30 15:33 just use different makefiles for dingoo and owrt 2010-04-30 15:33 we could always do a standalone owrt toolchain 2010-04-30 15:33 for easy porting 2010-04-30 16:13 just uploaded v0.2 of nupdf to the dingoo file archive, here's the link:   http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/dingoo.cgi?0,0,0,0,113,345 2010-04-30 16:28 darfgarf:is this binary also compatible wit BNN 2010-04-30 16:28 ? 2010-04-30 16:28 bnn? 2010-04-30 16:29 or if you slipped and meant to put nn, then yes, nupdf is the nn version, nupdf.dge is for dingoo (keybindings are the main difference) 2010-04-30 16:29 should just drop in and work...hopefully 2010-04-30 16:38 bnn=Ben NanoNote 2010-04-30 16:39 ah right, i just use nn (but the answer is yes put simply) 2010-04-30 16:55 bnn = nano = ben = ... :) 2010-04-30 16:55 bien 2010-04-30 16:55 tuxbrain: what's the maximun speed you got with arduino serial stuff? 2010-04-30 17:00 I had not played with it, I just stay in the bnn defaults 57600 bps 2010-04-30 17:02 but the theorical maximum is 115200 bps 2010-04-30 23:23 Carlos Camargo: Adding a simple plasma  example read write char short int, adding simulations http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/622f598