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<whitequark>
roh: hey, do you recall our discussion about smartphones? I've finally determined that for myself
<whitequark>
if, and only if, you use your smartphone like a dumbphone, it will easily live for a week. I just confirmed that.
<whitequark>
the problem is, why the hell would you want to do that if you have a smartphone.
* kristianpaul
is using dumbphones since 2000
<kristianpaul>
and at that time a palm m100 ( the PDA thing)
<kristianpaul>
and my 1.2M camera of course :)
<whitequark>
kristianpaul: it's a nice thing to have one gadget which works as a music player + gps navigation device + a camera (SGS2 has a camera which is on par with cheap "discrete" ones) + a dumbphone.
<whitequark>
not to mention occasional web browsing, through it's non-vital.
<whitequark>
the point is, ARMs _are_ energy-hungry, and they can convert electricity to heat very fast. they just sleep very well.
<kristianpaul>
same reason i dont buy swiss knife...
<kristianpaul>
so yes you could leave with it, just need to take the desition
<kristianpaul>
same reason you dont reply i guess al your mail in your smartphone
<kristianpaul>
i hope you dont :)
<whitequark>
well, do you keep a knife, screwdriver set, pliers, etc with yourself at all times?
<whitequark>
I need gps once in a month, when I'm lost, and camera maybe once a week, and so on
<whitequark>
I simply don't have the brainpower to remember if I will need a particular function at a particular day
<whitequark>
heck, it was hard enough to remember not to forget the phone itself at home.
<whitequark>
kristianpaul: I would reply to a sizable part of my mail on my smartphone, if not for the virtual keyboard. Unfortunately no one makes good physical keyboards now
<whitequark>
which is kinda disappointing, especially given the fact that Android has _very_ good support for keyboard and mice
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<wpwrak>
the world clearly needs new input devices. how about position-of-the-tongue for picking a key ? swallow to enter, burp to delete.
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: here, dumbphones since around 1996. they get the job done, what more can you ask for ? :)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: touchscreens are great for lots of things
<whitequark>
I'd say for more things you would like to do with a smartphone, except writing text.
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* xiangfu
try to use the oven for soldering the chip now
<xiangfu>
the 4 steps will be:
<xiangfu>
Set to 90C for 3 minutes to preheat
<xiangfu>
Set to 150C for 1 minute for thermal soak.
<xiangfu>
Turn off oven, open door, and cool to ambient with room air
<xiangfu>
Set to 210C for 1 minute for reflow. This results in a Tal of about 15 seconds.
<xiangfu>
base on azonenberg's blog
<wolfspraul>
wow, oven!
<wolfspraul>
you got a random cheap chinese mini-oven? how much did you pay?
<wolfspraul>
failed = the soldering didn't happen?
<wolfspraul>
the right one looks nicely toasted though :-)
<wolfspraul>
buy more chips and boards, maybe 20 or so
<xiangfu>
(failed = the soldering didn't happen?) yes.
<xiangfu>
I guess I miss up the temperature.
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
not sure how accurate the setting is, or to reach/hold it etc.
<wolfspraul>
difficult
<wolfspraul>
a precise measuring is also difficult
<wolfspraul>
too bad you can't just program the whole world
<wolfspraul>
room.set_temp(25.00)
<wolfspraul>
maybe too warm
<wolfspraul>
room.set_temp(19.50)
<xiangfu>
:)
<wolfspraul>
well
<wolfspraul>
of course a chinese heating computer would immediately and happily return with "19.5000 exactly reached, have a nice day"
<xiangfu>
exactly.
<xiangfu>
I made 10 of those PCB. in parallel. I try to improve the pcb design. I found it's really not easy route more wires in 2 layers.
<xiangfu>
the youtube or other example videos/documents are all simple chips. simple design.
<xiangfu>
the azonenberg
<xiangfu>
the azonenberg's board is good reference for learning.
<xiangfu>
bbl, lunch time.
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<wolfspraul>
enjoy
<wolfspraul>
imagine those would be sample chips from our own chip design
<wolfspraul>
let's say we got 10, after waiting for 2 months
<wolfspraul>
that would be painful to burn! :-)
<wolfspraul>
by then we better have figured this out... :-)
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<wpwrak>
hmm, that pcb's problems still start a long way before the soldering ...
<wpwrak>
at least with a pcb (as opposed to a ball of wires) it's easier to see what's wrong :)
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<wpwrak>
xiangfu: nicely cooked pcb :)
<wpwrak>
the silk screen varies quite a bit with respect to the copper. you'll probably have to find a more precise fab when you get to doing more serious things.
<wpwrak>
about the layout: you can make your life easier by routing ground outside the chip, not under it. e.g., if you make a U-shaped ground trace (include connectors and oscillator), then you need only relatively short traces that go under the chip. this lowers the risk of make unintended contacts.
<wpwrak>
then, you only have one silo cap at the power connector, but no bypass caps at the fpga. the longest distance between ground and cap is about 50 mm, which is a bit excessive.
<wpwrak>
the number of connections to power is also suspicious. there should be more of them.
<wpwrak>
and another one: P1 ground should connect to P2 ground via a trace, not through the chip.
<wpwrak>
the aspect ratio (hole to ring diameter) of the holes for the connectors seems quite small, especially if we consider that your fab is not very precise. maybe make it a bit bigger.
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<wpwrak>
i like the triac :) the rest of the circuit seems over-engineered.
<wpwrak>
why not use a cheap AVR with V-USB. that solves: 1) power supply, 2) controls, 3) indicators, 4) communication with modern hosts.
<wpwrak>
of course, you need some confidence in having gotten the galvanic separation right. the price of failure is a PC :)
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<roh>
wpwrak: the moc series is nice.. optoisolated hv-switches
<wpwrak>
just integration of the "large" triac is missing
<kristianpaul>
triac are live saving, even more if you add an optocoupler
<roh>
wpwrak: the moc is the driver as far as i can see.. but there are solid-state-switches which have all that integrated
<roh>
zero-crossing, optoisolated line switches
<wpwrak>
do you know one ?
<wpwrak>
the problem with external components is that anything that's rated for mains voltage is bulky, often just to obtain a large enough air gap. when integrated, such issues disappear.
<roh>
well.. there are readymade kits for driving a toasteroven or similar appliances to defined temperatures ;)
<wpwrak>
the one at sparkfun looks much nicer :) let's see if digi-key have something like that ..
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<wpwrak>
hmm, all quite expensive
<roh>
digikey is expensive
<wpwrak>
but factor of 6 ? the cheapest that can handle >= 400 V and >= 8 A are USD 24.76 @ 100. (these are actually 530 V 25 A, but the 8 A models are even more expensive)
<roh>
well.. i dont buy at dk.. dunno whats their issue
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<wpwrak>
ah. they also have the sharp part. but listed as "120 V". price similar/better to/than sparkfun: 5.10 @ 1 vs. 4.95, 4.08 @ 10 vs. 4.46, 3.37 @ 100 vs. 3.96
<wpwrak>
now that makes a lot of sense. alas, the "240 V" part (S208T02) is "call for price"
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<roh>
wpwrak: yeah. i guess there are some dozend of similar devices
<wpwrak>
yeah, seems that i'm not the only one who likes their circuits to be compact :)
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