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<wolfspraul> service is back up, sorry for the inconvenience
<wolfspraul> s/service/server/
<qi-bot> wolfspraul meant: "server is back up, sorry for the inconvenience"
<wolfspraul> and the bot helps me, thanks!
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<wpwrak> grmbl. CCFL seems to be dead for good. sigh. time to go monitor shopping ...
<qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/ledravaganza/: draft proposal and example circuit for M1r4 LED matrix (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/4e044fc
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<viric> wpwrak: do you know any dense dot matrix lcd (close to a monitor, it doesn't matter if it's black/white only) that does not have backlight?
<viric> as with typical calculators, with a mirror below the lcd
<wpwrak> hmm, isn't that qi-pixel display like that ? maybe you could scavenge an OLPC
<viric> whati s that?
<viric> qi-pixel
<viric> ah looks fine
<wpwrak> ah, Pixel Qi :) nothing to do with us
<viric> ahh
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<wolfspraul> I'm thinking about putting a QR-code label on PCBs that links directly to an online failure reporting/analysis/corrective action database
<wolfspraul> have to find some nice free server-side software for that first
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<mth> wolfspraul: QR decoding is available as open source: http://zbar.sourceforge.net/
<viric> I wanted to use that lib for barcode decoding, some time ago
<viric> but I noticed my webcam can't focus a barcode of usual size.
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<DocScrutinizer51> err, why's that?
<DocScrutinizer51> has it auofocus that's braking on barcodes? (I've seen that more than once)
<DocScrutinizer51> if so, it usually helps to rotatae either narcode or cam by >45
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<DocScrutinizer51> <135
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<DocScrutinizer> wolfspraul: make sure you get the QR in silkscreen, not in copper. Also consider silkscreen usually tends to bleed out so your QR might get illegible when too small and np correction factor for shrinking silkscreen print
<DocScrutinizer> no*
<wolfspraul> my idea was different
<wolfspraul> first I don't like any serial numbers that are not easily removable
<wolfspraul> say lasered for example
<wolfspraul> and then, the idea here is to have the link directly to the data for this particular board
<wolfspraul> a unique address for that board, like the MAC address
<wolfspraul> but as a gluable label, not in silk or lasered or so
<DocScrutinizer> duh
<DocScrutinizer> what's the use of that? nser#?
<wolfspraul> keep track of defects and technical history of that board
<DocScrutinizer> :nod:
<DocScrutinizer> you might consider looking into CD inkjet-printers
<viric> DocScrutinizer: no, without autofocus. fixed focus
<DocScrutinizer> I mean such a cheesy dualuse (also) CD printer will easily take non-circle-shaped PCB after smallish mods
<DocScrutinizer> depending on the way you do things, your metrics of "easily removable" might either not get matched or vastly over-fulfilled
<DocScrutinizer> I.E. "don't touch the printing, or it will smear and vanish"
<DocScrutinizer> or "use a knofe or sandpaper to scratch it off"
<DocScrutinizer> knife*
<DocScrutinizer> I for one prefer to HARDlink such properties to the tagged object
<DocScrutinizer> so no fool sends me a PCBA with a fake/swapped/borrowed SER#
<DocScrutinizer> viric: so why couldn't it focus then?
<DocScrutinizer> it never can focus ;-)
<DocScrutinizer> or do you mean "QR is too small to read it out when held far enough from fixed focus webcam to be in-focus"?
<viric> DocScrutinizer: well, it focuses at a distance where the barcode does not have enough resolution to be detected
<DocScrutinizer> which would be kinda .oO(???) as well, the usual webcam at least should have 640*400, no?
<viric> I use "focuses" as "has a fixed focus to", instead of any active verb
<viric> 1024x768
<DocScrutinizer> so you should have several pixel per datsel of QR
<viric> with more than 45° aperture I'd say.
<viric> focused at 50cm
<DocScrutinizer> even in a good distance, unless for microscopic QR
<viric> I'm talking about barcodes.
<viric> those of supermarkets
<DocScrutinizer> short calculation: 1m dist = ~50cm width, /1024 = 0.5mm/pixel
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<viric> and you think that's good for a barcode?
<viric> :)
<DocScrutinizer> unless there's too much of aliasing, I.E. more than 2pixel / datsel/bar, I'd expect it to work
<viric> it's not a Hubble lens
<DocScrutinizer> after all barcodes are robust to read out
<DocScrutinizer> you just need one semi decent scanline in one of 50 frames each second
<DocScrutinizer> for barcodes
<viric> that does not happen with this webcam :)
<viric> if you have a webcam in your notebook.. you can try.
<DocScrutinizer> I don't
<viric> ok :)
<DocScrutinizer> probably your lib is crap, hoping for optimal input data to get away with a over simplistic approach for decoding
<DocScrutinizer> usual barcodes always have a calibration header&trailer
<DocScrutinizer> or fixed width binary coding
<DocScrutinizer> where you see only bars of 1* 2* 4* width
<DocScrutinizer> usually even both
<viric> well, seeing the images live, I can't distinguish the bars either
<wpwrak> hmm .. choice 1) spend the weekend with only two screens. 2) go out and buy a new one, replacing the one that's broken. minor obstacle: power is down in part of the building, already for 12+ hours. this means: no elevators. and it's 14 floors at 35 C ...
<viric> it gets like some grey
<viric> wpwrak: 'only' two screens?
<DocScrutinizer> hmm, now that's actually a tad too little on info then
<viric> a tad?
<DocScrutinizer> indeed, a tad
<DocScrutinizer> you'd be amazed what a good filter can get out of what you think is uniform grey
<viric> hm tad == small child?
<DocScrutinizer> ad tad == a little
<DocScrutinizer> itsibitsy
<wpwrak> viric: trust me. once you've had tree, you don't want to go back to two :)
<DocScrutinizer> I keep my 2nd screen in office off all the time
<DocScrutinizer> what I can't do one one screen isn't worth getting done ;-D
<DocScrutinizer> viric: look, do you see the single pixels?
<DocScrutinizer> no? then why do you think you should see the 1 pixel wide bars
<DocScrutinizer> 1, or 2
<DocScrutinizer> for a decoder that makes a hell of a difference, and a proper image with 1 and 2 pixel wide bars is perfectly decodable
<DocScrutinizer> even when the bars bleed out to neighbour pixels, you still can decode them
<DocScrutinizer> as gray pixels are supposed to be white when next to a black pixel
<DocScrutinizer> you see what I mean?
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<DocScrutinizer> you *know* it's a barcode you look on, hell you even can use kalman filters ;-D
<DocScrutinizer> will pull your barcode from true noise
<DocScrutinizer> ask the GPS guys if they could see their SAT signal on a scope, by watching the receiver IF
<DocScrutinizer> I thik the signal is some 30..60dBm *below* receiver noise there
<DocScrutinizer> I'm absolutely sure you can get barcodes from a video signal that has pure white noise for all you could tell by visual inspection, by just applying same decoding principles
<DocScrutinizer> takes quite a bit of computation grunt, but hey that's el'cheapo nowadays
<viric> hm maybe :)
<viric> in any case, zbar failed
<DocScrutinizer> braddead lib I guess
<DocScrutinizer> braindead even
<DocScrutinizer> I've seen pictures getting algorithmically deblurred
<viric> in Tannhauser
<viric> DocScrutinizer: ok, you want a picture ;)
<DocScrutinizer> for sure not
<DocScrutinizer> just saying there's definitely always a smarter method to decode a barcode than the one you're jst using - no matter what might be that currently used method. Further saying you might get barcodes from video material you'd not believe there's *any* info on it
<viric> I understand
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<DocScrutinizer> I dunno if I could find the linke once more, but there's been a report from a university where they got accurate data for an individual's heart pulse rate, blood pressure and O2 saturation (or maybe it was onky two out of those 3), by analyzing simple standard video material for otherwise not noticeable color changes of the skin
<DocScrutinizer> rather nifty stuff indeed
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