<qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: bonnie: useful tool to determine the speed of your filesystem (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/114eb6b
<wpwrak> hmm, if anyone has a "normal" Ben
<wpwrak> up and running, could they please run these commands ?
<wpwrak> poke 0x10000068
<wpwrak> poke 0x10021008
<wpwrak> that'll show how fast the MMC bus is running. my bens are all in a bit of a weird configuration :)
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: 0x10000068 = 0xd, 0x10021008 = 0x6
<ps2chiper> how much does the milkymist soc cost?
<wolfspraul> it's free
<wolfspraul> the lm32 core is under a permissive open source license, the rest that was mostly/all written by Sebastien under gplv3
<ps2chiper> to put it another way, how much do you need to pay the fab to make it for you?
<wolfspraul> oh that's a long subject
<ps2chiper> thats what beoran4 wants to know
<wolfspraul> I'm glad you are interested though :-)
<wolfspraul> yes but with any good questions the answer is not easy
<wolfspraul> running the design in an fpga is also a chip, right?
<wolfspraul> and if you like another process, there are many to choose from
<wolfspraul> wait, I lookup a nice 3-series article I read recently
<ps2chiper> beoran4 just wants a avr chip that is similar in power to the gameboy advance so he can make his own shanzhai handheld
<beoran4> well, I'm not against using fgpa's as long as they can be very cheap
<beoran4> ps2chiper: yes, that's the goal really,
<ps2chiper> when you look up articles, there not cheap
<beoran4> it doesn't even have to be avr
<ps2chiper> well i think for your simplicity it does
<ps2chiper> if you start using external ram and flash, your pcb complexity goes up
<beoran4> ps2chiper: yes, or something similarly simple :)
<wolfspraul> but it sounds like you guys are still in high-level/dreaming mode :-)
<ps2chiper> to put it another way, how much money do you spend per soc to the fabs?
<wolfspraul> me? nothing, I have never worked with a foundry
<wolfspraul> not there yet
<wolfspraul> (and not needed right now)
<ps2chiper> im working on opencola
<wolfspraul> he, cool
<wolfspraul> I had never heard of that before
<ps2chiper> its the gpl cola
<ps2chiper> Beoran4 is a master chemist
<beoran4> master's degree... but my programming is more masterful :p
<beoran4> since that's my day job
<beoran4> hmm, designing a chip myself would take this project too far
<ps2chiper> beoran4, you cant get a straight answer from this channel, only helpful nudges
<beoran4> sure
<ps2chiper> wolfspraul, do you know of any avr chips that have 512KB of ram and flash?
<beoran4> right now, some hinds on what cpu to use would be useful
<wolfspraul> no I don't know
<wolfspraul> beoran4: what do you want to design/manufacture exactly, and for what purpose?
<beoran4> a hand held game, that is as cheap and simple as possible , but still open and relatively easy to program for everyone
<beoran4> in othe rwords, an open source GBA/GBA SP
<beoran4> equivalent
<beoran4> but the cards shoulkd probably be SD cards
<wolfspraul> wow, big project
<beoran4> so you can have many games on one card
<ps2chiper> wolfspraul helped make the nanonote
<beoran4> in essence it's "simple"r than tha nano note
<beoran4> I'd probaby resue exising case designs too
<beoran4> reuse
<ps2chiper> you can use the gba advance carts and make it usb programmable if you want a nonelastic effect on people.
<beoran4> I know it's a big project, so it will take time
<ps2chiper> I think right now, for wolfspraul, its beer o'clock
<beoran4> ps2chiper: hmmm, the cards are not that ubiquituous, and programmable gba cards are illegal in several european countries (due to piracy)
<beoran4> if he wants beer, we have plenty tasty ones here in belgium
<beoran4> wolfspraul: can I bribe you with belgian beer? :)
<ps2chiper> wolfspraul is the frenchmans natural enemy
<ps2chiper> a german
<beoran4> ah, but I'm not french
<ps2chiper> no, but your beer may be
<beoran4> French beer? What a joke. :)
<ps2chiper> thats how world war 1 was started, by that joke. just kidding
<beoran4> Ok, we have beer in wallonia (french speaking belgium) ,but france? That's just like dutch beer, whihc we call "camel's p*ss"
<ps2chiper> how do you say "camel piss" in french?
<beoran4> this is probably the best possible
<beoran4> 256kb flash
<beoran4> 128sram
<beoran4> if you take more flash then there's no SD card
<beoran4> although they have with 512bk flash but that would be USB programmable only
<ps2chiper> hmm, is 128KB enough ram for you?
<beoran4> it's not much, you'd need external ram I think
<beoran4> so, maybe not this one then?
<beoran4> perhaps I should go for SAM7 in stead?
<ps2chiper> then i dong suggest an avr chip
<ps2chiper> i suggest you go for a regular soc using spi flash and 1 sdram
<beoran4> 128 kb is the maximum on AVR32
<ps2chiper> I guess so, i havent sen any larger
<wolfspraul> beoran4: what was the last device you designed or manufactured?
<beoran4> I'm a beginner, thank you
<beoran4> so I'm all ears wwhen it comes to listening to more esperienced people. as long as you don't say it's "impossible" :p
<wolfspraul> perfect, we are all
<wolfspraul> oh, you certainly wouldn't and shouldn't care about "impossible"
<wolfspraul> I have long given up on that
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wolfspraul> it's natural that people don't listen to that, I woudln't
<wolfspraul> you will go in this direction for a while (the one you plan now), then you will learn a lot of things, then you will regroup/refocus around what you care about the most, etc.
<ps2chiper> Then your wife will ask you to make more money, so you quit
<beoran4> heh
<beoran4> I already have been going in this direction for a while though, mentally speaking
<beoran4> it's why I was interested in the ND and eon projects
<wolfspraul> what you are planning there, also with your comparisons to GBA etc. is typically done by a total of hundreds of people
<wolfspraul> so you either have to scale up a lot, or zoom in on what you exactly want to do
<wolfspraul> imagine you want to fly to your cousin in Florida next summer, ok?
<wolfspraul> summer 2012
<wolfspraul> and on TV you have seen those nice large Boeing & Airbus airplanes that can take you there
<wolfspraul> well. you decide to build and fly in your own
<wolfspraul> should certainly be possible before the summer vacation?
<wolfspraul> and you can make it more fuel-efficient than the big ones too, surely. which means you save money!
<wolfspraul> off you go
<wolfspraul> at least until summer 2012 you will have your hands full :-)
<wolfspraul> then maybe until end-of 2012 you can have all sorts of excuses for the delays
<wolfspraul> and sometime in 2013 maybe you decide to just buy a regular economy ticket and fly with the stuff that already exists :-)
<beoran4> sure
<beoran4> but that's saying "it's impossible" :)
<wolfspraul> nah
<wolfspraul> go build it
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wolfspraul> I say: IT'S GREAT!
<wolfspraul> :-)
<beoran4> german humar
<ps2chiper> The chinese are trying to build their own aircraft
<beoran4> humor
<wolfspraul> but seriously - what is your main interest?
<wolfspraul> can you zoom in a little?
<beoran4> this is a bit simpler than an aircraft, though
<wolfspraul> you can of course start like you describe above, but man, yes, I just know - you will not get very far :-)
<ps2chiper> he wants a open source hand held video game he can dick around with
<beoran4> ok, what do you mean "zoom in"
<wolfspraul> how well can you read and design electrical circuits?
<wolfspraul> do you have any mechanical engineering experience?
<wolfspraul> I take it you are a software dev - all levels? kernel etc. all no problem?
<beoran4> I can read circuits, no mechanical design, but I programmed on the bare hardware, I programmed atari2600 games
<ps2chiper> wolfspraul, i already brow beaten him for a few months about these issues
<wolfspraul> my analogy with the summer vacation and "let me quickly design my own airplane" may not be too far off
<wolfspraul> you want to achieve a small goal. you want to have a game console for yourself? that's all?
<beoran4> it's not an idea that I has suddenly
<wolfspraul> maybe I just donate one to you to make you happy :-)
<ps2chiper> you can use my atmega168 to make your own atari2600
<wolfspraul> or you have a big goal in mind?
<ps2chiper> the big coal is opencola
<wolfspraul> if you have a small goal, and you try to reach it in the most difficult way, well. hard to help...
<beoran4> ps2chiper: that's also one "big goal" yes.
<beoran4> wolfspraul: I see what you mean, howeber, I'm not a teenager
<wolfspraul> maybe it's just a hobby
<ps2chiper> You can try making a toned down fuzebox for atari 2600 type games
<beoran4> well, I want a bit more thna atari 2600 though :p
<beoran4> and not only for myself
<ps2chiper> yes, but i can donate the atmega168 chips to you
<beoran4> ah I see
<wolfspraul> there you go
<wolfspraul> you almost made it
<beoran4> rofl
<ps2chiper> no, seriously, you can use the fuze box as an example
<ps2chiper> that is atmega644
<beoran4> wolfspraul: I get the distinct impression of not being taken serious, but I understand wy, too man ydreamers here, heh?
<ps2chiper> the only difference is the ammount of pins and flash
<wolfspraul> no no
<wolfspraul> dreamers is good
<wolfspraul> please continue down your path, and keep us posted
<wolfspraul> I'm just saying: zoom in to what is really important to you
<wolfspraul> the faster and the more you can zoom in, the better imho
<ps2chiper> hey wolfspraul, im trying to get into router business again, do you have any openwrt devs you can toss my way?
<wolfspraul> how would I do that
<ps2chiper> like drawf tossing at the bar
<wolfspraul> fire up your text editor, improve something, send a patch
<beoran4> xwhat's really important to me is that it's a design that's easy to clone
<beoran4> and easy to (mass) produce
<beoran4> but also easy to make just one of
<ps2chiper> I think wolfspraul finished beer o'clock
<ps2chiper> now is drunk o'clock
<beoran4> in other words, so I and othe rhobbyists can make it easily, but it could also be mass produced in a later stage
<beoran4> fuzebox is not a bad idea but it's not handheld
<ps2chiper> like i was saying, you could use the atmega168 for a tomagochi style device
<ps2chiper> like a tomogochi obama
<beoran4> hehehe
<beoran4> would that sell well in china?
<beoran4> it will need to say "yes we can!"
<ps2chiper> yes it would
<beoran4> and you have to feed it fried chicken
<ps2chiper> OFC
<ps2chiper> obama fried chicken
<beoran4> rofl
<ps2chiper> and waffles
<beoran4> actually, the fusebox is a nice design just a tiny bit weaksauce for me
<ps2chiper> or it can be a countdown to the next reelection
<beoran4> but!
<ps2chiper> well start low
<beoran4> maybe it could be adjusted to a AVR32
<ps2chiper> grind up
<beoran4> 64KB flash and 4KB of RAM
<beoran4> if you look at that, then 128kb of ram isan ocean to swim in
<ps2chiper> i suggest you stick to atmega168 since I have 2500 of them
<beoran4> just have to page a lot to sd card
<beoran4> how much ram/flash does that have?
<beoran4> the atmega 168?
<ps2chiper> ram, i need to check, flash 16KB
<ps2chiper> 20mhz speed
<beoran4> probably too few ram to do color screens
<beoran4> but monochrome would be possible
<ps2chiper> hmm, well a black and white screen would suit obama well
<beoran4> something like those
<ps2chiper> Its 1KB ram
<beoran4> heh, this idea is so crazy it might work :)
<beoran4> 1kb
<beoran4> hmmm
<beoran4> let me see, 512bytes vidoe memory?
<beoran4> 512 bytes program memory
<ps2chiper> if your trying to make a classic tamagotchi with obama as the character, it will work well
<ps2chiper> the bom would be about 5 dollars
<beoran4> and coudl you sell it?
<beoran4> can we use existing casings and screens?
<ps2chiper> sure it would be a huge hit
<beoran4> ok, let's try to make a design then
<beoran4> cpu: atmega168
<ps2chiper> no, you start with an atmega168 emulator
<beoran4> ah, to see if I can implement it? :)
<beoran4> I'd need to know what LCD screen to use though, but any way
<ps2chiper> they have a ton of lcd to atmega168 project
<beoran4> let me see
<ps2chiper> i have a tv show for you, its called top secret recipe, its a food hacker so to speak, and he reverses secret recipes
<beoran4> cool
<beoran4> hmmm, can't seem to find an atmega168 emulator just yet
<beoran4> muts be out there somewhere
<ps2chiper> lets take it back to eon
<beoran4> ok
<Ayla> awesome project :D
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: (registers) thanks !
<kristianpaul> wpwrak: 068 = 0d
<kristianpaul> 21008 = 0
<wpwrak> hmm, interesting
<wpwrak> 0x0d means 336/14 -> 24 MHz for the MMC controller
<wpwrak> 0 means bus_clock = mmc_clock/1
<wpwrak> 6 means bus_clock = mmc_clock/64
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: so your MMC should be able to transfer up to 12 MB/sec (minus overhead)
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: while yours would do about 187 kB/sec
<wpwrak> ps2chiper: (512 kB flash and ram) would that be flash+ram == 512 kB ? or flash == 512 kB && ram == 512 kB ?
<ps2chiper> the 2nd part
<wpwrak> (memory) ah .. you already went beyond that point
<qwebirc88488> Hi
<zrafa> wolfspraul: wpwrak : you there?
<zrafa> qwebirc88488: hi
<qwebirc88488> Are you "in the know" about the Nanonote?
<wpwrak> (memory) the biggest atmel chip (any family) has 25 kB of RAM
<wpwrak> zrafa: aye
<zrafa> qwebirc88488: you can change your nick writting:   /nick nickyouwant
<zrafa> wpwrak: are you getting something from sharism these months? :)
<harrkev> I was wondering if Nanonote was dead.  No update to the web site in months...
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: indeed, where are the monthly news ? :)
<zrafa> wolfspraul: wpwrak : Miriam wants to buy a super embedded linux computer, and she would like to buy it from sharism. The one I got was paid by jlime so we do not know
<wpwrak> zrafa: dunno ... so far, nothing is planned
<harrkev> I have also read rumors of a Nanonote 2, but nothing in a year...
<wpwrak> harrkev: these are just that, rumors. work on a NN2 (that would be the "Ya") hasn't started yet
<zrafa> wolfspraul: wpwrak : how to buy it using our money :).. And if the shipping is okey from sharism -> arg (okey=no many surprises from customs)
<wpwrak> harrkev: right now, most of the attention of qi-hw folks is on the milkymist one: http://milkymist.org/
<harrkev> wpwrak:  Thanks.  I am considering getting a Nanonote and wanted to know that work was still on-going on the OS, but fixes, etc.  Thanks.
<wpwrak> customs are tricky these days. i hope they're still letting personal shipments through
<wpwrak> harrkev: yes, the distribution is still being maintained. if you look at the mailing list, there's still a fair bit of activity. and especially around distribution issues.
<harrkev> K.  Thnx.  Bye
<mstevens> looks for tuxbrain
<kristianpaul> :_D
<kristianpaul> with that MMC speed a 2 bit SDR could be posible :)
<kristianpaul> or 1 bit at least ;)
<wpwrak> hmm, one bit may actually work
<wpwrak> MMC has a stream mode. i don't think ingenic implemented it as truly infinite, but at least with fewer limitations as SD
<wpwrak> unfortunately, it's limited to 1 bit. if you try to set the bus to 4 bits, the controller won't even start
<jow_laptop> kyak: can you explain me the purpose of "001-cache-amnesia.patch" in gcc-mips?
<jow_laptop> kyak: I worked on an updated gcc package based on the Qi one which works on more platforms and got along without this patch
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: did something get worse with Argentine customs?
<wolfspraul> and for rafa, maybe we can send it together with the next m1 board
<wolfspraul> the one where Adam applied the final rc4 reset ic circuit (after we know what the final should be)
<zrafa> wolfspraul: when would that be? .. Miriam is going to BA in december for sure. Maybe she can bring his new computer at that time?
<wolfspraul> that could work, speed also depends on when Werner finalizes his rc4 recommendation
<wolfspraul> Adam is on standby
<wolfspraul> in fact I am constantly asking when Werner thinks Adam can start, but Werner is operating at a level that Adam cannot contribute to, so we have to wait for the result of Werner's analysis.
<wolfspraul> but I think it's just a few days out, maybe a week
<zrafa> wolfspraul: we will try to pay with our credit card today or tomorrow (real one :P ) .. and then we will talk with Yi (Yi is the name of her?) to coordinate the shipping. I will ask customs here in Neuquen as well
<zrafa> so when we already decided the best way we can tell her and then to do the shipping
<wolfspraul> huh? don't understand
<wolfspraul> can we wait a week?
<zrafa> yes, we can. sorry. I meant. We will buy it today or tomorrow, but we want to wait a while before sharism sends it , until we know the best way
<zrafa> wolfspraul: ^
<wolfspraul> if we combine into a shipment for Werner, shipping will be a lot cheaper
<wolfspraul> so don't just buy in the webshop now, let me coordinate this with Werner first
<zrafa> okey. great
<wolfspraul> and THANKS A LOT for wanting to buy one!
<zrafa> tell that to Miriam :) well... I will tell her ;)
<wolfspraul> yes, please
<kristianpaul> oh nice :)
<kristianpaul> zrafa: what you plan to do with M1. i'm really curious :-)
<kristianpaul> i guess you bring it to the Uni for some development* course?
<kristianpaul> as on of the plans :)
<kristianpaul> gottat go,i hoep get internet in the bus station :)
<wolfspraul> not m1 - Ben
<ignatius_> Is it possible to use USB devices with the Ben's USB port? Like, for example, a USB mouse? I've compiled "USB Host" into the kernel, and now, at boot up, it detects "usb0" with a MAC address. Does it work as a USB device? Or does it just support USB "Gadget" support? Not having a usable USB port seems like a waste of motherboard space to me.
<zear> ignatius_, ben's usb port has no host support
<zear> you can connect to it only devices that act as hosts themselves
<ignatius_> What is the "usb0" than?
<zear> usb networking?
<ignatius_> Gadget?
<zear> i'd say
<ignatius_> Ok. I see. Thanks for the clarifications.
<zear> moreover, usb port in ben is probably unpowered
<ignatius_> I wish it did have USB. :(
<zear> so even if it has the host functionality, you couldn't plug devices that aren't self powered
<zear> *has/had
<ignatius_> Nod.
<ignatius_> I was trying with a mouse and a wireless modem.
<ignatius_> Oh. Well. I guess I still have the ks7010 card.