<wolfspraul>
but whether it is still meaningful is up to those people to decide, the FSF is focused :-)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: they would be too close to "linking"
<wolfspraul>
I think Lattice wants to allow others to combine their part with closed stuff.
<wolfspraul>
not that we would need that, but that's how I understand the Lattice license.
<wpwrak>
do lattice say their license is "GPL" ?
<wolfspraul>
oh my god, no
<wpwrak>
good :)
<wolfspraul>
they tried to write a BSD-style license, and clarify a few things that are quite unusual in the IC world
<wolfspraul>
that's why they clarify the manufacturing stuff
<wolfspraul>
and specifically mention fpga and asic as being allowed
<wolfspraul>
the export control paragraph is definitely not gpl compatible, if gpl compatibility even matters
<wolfspraul>
not sure whether they can just remove that paragraph, or whether they are forced to keep it in? it's probably quite a big thing for them to remove it, I could imagine
<wolfspraul>
will look like they support the terrorists, who has the guts to stand up against that nonsense nowadays
<wpwrak>
;-)))
<wpwrak>
i'm not so sure whether things like the export control paragraph are really needed. they would go under the umbrella of "you're still bound by all other applicable laws". e.g., if make a GPL/CC/whatever gun design and my license doesn't mention that you shouldn't shoot people with it, that does't mean that you're now in possession of a license to kill.
<wolfspraul>
yes sure, I'm not a lawyer
<wolfspraul>
you can argue all this in endless ways
<wolfspraul>
I think what Milkymist does is exactly what Lattice wanted to allow
<wpwrak>
similarly, lattice are not in a position to grant you exemption from US export law. so it would probably be sufficient to mention that the code is covered by US export law, but unless these laws explicitly require you to state so, you don't have to say what the law requires.
<wolfspraul>
that is crystal clear obvious to me if I read the entire license and try to think about what they wanted to say.
<wpwrak>
sounds fair to me
<wolfspraul>
and if they say I have the right to "create derivative works", to me that obviously includes the right to run it in a simulator
<wolfspraul>
how else can I 'create' a derivative work? will it fall from the sky one day?
<wolfspraul>
it's so funny that you go through this and try to think what they did _not_ mention
<wolfspraul>
which of course is a lot!
<wolfspraul>
hey, it's infinite!
<wolfspraul>
instead of them adding more words to list more obvious rights, I would rather want them to remove some words, make it shorter. Like you suggested with the export control paragraph (good idea btw!).
<wpwrak>
the "they did not mention" argument is unfortunately also valid
<wpwrak>
sometimes, that's where the catches are :-(
<wolfspraul>
of course. but someone has to make a judgment, is there a catch or not.
<wolfspraul>
remember the fear tax?
<wolfspraul>
read the license, make a judgment. I am telling you, in terms of running these sources in simulators, there is no catch.
<wpwrak>
yeah. i wouldn't worry about simulators so much. more about implementing on other people's silicon.
<wolfspraul>
it specifically lists fpga and asic
<wolfspraul>
i'm telling you - the more they would write the more suspicious you would become. "why are they writing so much?" "what are they _not_ writing?" :-)
<wpwrak>
;-)
<wpwrak>
there's no upper bound for paranoia :)
<wolfspraul>
I think the model Lattice has in mind is to have an open core that is 'totally free', i.e. they did not plan or foresee any direct revenue stream out of this
<wolfspraul>
then they have proprietary stuff around it
<wolfspraul>
nobody can manufacture anything without adding proprietary IP anyway
<wpwrak>
that's a bit of a problem with a gpl-style license
<wpwrak>
anyway, gotta run
<wolfspraul>
I need to talk with some Lattice people find out how this Mico32 core even started.
<wolfspraul>
cu
<wpwrak>
i'll follow the outcome of the flame war later :)
<wpwrak>
(talk to lattice) good idea, yes
<kristianpaul>
but now there is MM SoC like of competence for this missing free other cores btw, sure they may not care...
<kristianpaul>
:)
<kristianpaul>
off bed
<bartbes>
wait a sec..
<bartbes>
who marked wordgrinder as broken?
<bartbes>
xiangfu.. get in here..
<wolfspraul>
bartbes: you think it should work?
<bartbes>
it's on my nn
<bartbes>
working
<bartbes>
I mean.. it compiles and runs..
<wolfspraul>
oh I'm sure all of these packages worked at some point, for someone
<wolfspraul>
it's just that we try to get them all together into one image, which seems a bit hard
<wolfspraul>
I haven't reflashed xiangfu's new image yet, will do now...
<bartbes>
but why is it broken, I ask
<bartbes>
oh, and another thing is, what does point 4 mean?
<bartbes>
"no needs include, openwrt build system will take care of them."
<wolfspraul>
probably someone compiled, got an error, and instead of fixing the error just marked it broken
<bartbes>
will they be in an ipkg repo?
<bartbes>
well, it might be
<wolfspraul>
no I think they will be in the image, otherwise how can the apps work?
<bartbes>
that the person who marked it as broken
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: i did the clock is broken
<bartbes>
didn't had the newest version of ncurses
<kristianpaul>
i cant find out wuick gmu
<bartbes>
because it was fixed upstream
<kristianpaul>
alt + enter didnt worked..
<kristianpaul>
new gmu icon is nice also qi wallpaper
<wolfspraul>
ok one by one
<wolfspraul>
I need a new image for the 1k nanos I have to reflash in a week or so
<wolfspraul>
bartbes: can we get some love games in?
<bartbes>
oops.. I must've forgotten to unmark it :P
<bartbes>
let me check if ncurses made it upstream yet
<bartbes>
it did, cool
<bartbes>
then let's see if it compiles
<bartbes>
wolfspraul: because I have no dummies yet, most games will fail to run
<bartbes>
I should really continue work on love.audio...
<wolfspraul>
oh OK
<wolfspraul>
so maybe too late for this run, let's see. still have a bit of time. if not we get it in later...
<kristianpaul>
good now i have a better looking serial connector :)
<kristianpaul>
my reprap is fixed :)
<kristianpaul>
tiem to sleep !
<kristianpaul>
gn8 all (now is tru)
<bartbes>
do note that love.audio and love.sound are the only 2 modules that still need to be ported
<bartbes>
hmm
<bartbes>
is there a way to build a package without marking it?
<bartbes>
wolfspraul: I gave up on love.audio.sdl for now, so I made sure it just uses the null audio module (a dummy fallback one already present in the full version)
<bartbes>
and I disabled love.sound
<bartbes>
so no music and sfx for now..
<bartbes>
but at least something running
<bartbes>
now to write a demo game
<wolfspraul>
nice, that's a good start
<bartbes>
wolfspraul: want me to send you the makefile+patches (or the ipk, whatever you prefer) so you can test yourself?
<bartbes>
hmm time for coffee, I might think of a game at the same time
<wolfspraul>
he
<wolfspraul>
I am still downloading xiangfu's image
<bartbes>
that's.. fast
<wolfspraul>
I'm behind an openvpn channel and happy about every byte that reaches the free Internet :-)
<bartbes>
:P
<bartbes>
do you know a way to see *why* a diff fails to apply?
<bartbes>
wolfspraul: I created a small pong game
<bartbes>
to demonstrate nlove
<bartbes>
it's nice
<bartbes>
but of course I *have* to improve the gameplay a bit..
<bartbes>
ugh
<wolfspraul>
cool
<bartbes>
so should I send you a makefile or an ipk of nlove (and the npong .love (game file))
<wolfspraul>
bartbes: if you have a Makefile, why not just commit it into openwrt-packages?
<bartbes>
because it's hosted on my own comp
<bartbes>
which will not be up all day
<bartbes>
(the nlove source)
<larsc>
you can include the code in the package
<bartbes>
I.. can?
<larsc>
well, you can put any files you like besides the Makefile and then copy them instead of extracting an archive
<bartbes>
are you sure you want that buttload of files in the repo?
<bartbes>
because it's a *lot*
<roh>
if its source and not geneated binary data it belongs in the repo *ducks*
<roh>
+r
<bartbes>
but we're talking 355 files here
<bartbes>
oh I can just as well put it on dropbox..
<roh>
do they belong to the game? i mean.. does one need them to play?
<bartbes>
they are the engine
<roh>
355 files is nothing. the kernel has thousands of files
<roh>
put them into the repo
<bartbes>
the game itself is 2 files
<bartbes>
:P
<bartbes>
1.1KB
<roh>
on our hackspace svn we even add the pdf of schematics to svn a lot. to make people able to view the schematics without invoking eagle/whatever
<roh>
its more important to 'keep stuff you need to work with something' together than if its 'perfectly' stored in a technical sense. worst case it eats a mbyte of diskspace. so what. nobody cares about such a thing anymore
<bartbes>
if you run that with nlove you can play it
<roh>
hm.. what license are these wallpapers?
<wolfspraul>
good point about the wallpaper licenses...
<roh>
not only wallpapers.. any icon etc poses danger if thats not clear :=
<xiangfu>
roh: I search it in Internet, I can't find the wallpaper licenses. :(
<roh>
irgh
<roh>
no license -> dont use. default means copyrighted
<xiangfu>
roh: ok.
<xiangfu>
roh: thanks :)
<bartbes>
hmm
<roh>
no worries.. i just have seen too many friends get into trouble because of simple things like that.
<bartbes>
larsc: you were the guy I worked on ncursesw with, right?
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: he, for sure. You need to delete those images.
<wolfspraul>
roh: which licenses do you think are acceptable?
<bartbes>
CC0 :P
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: on flickr, you can seach for licenses with a cc-by or cc-by-sa license
<wolfspraul>
there are tons of nice pictures on flickr, just watch out when you search you click the cc checkboxes and make sure to also select 'commercially usable' and 'allow derivative works'
<roh>
xiangfu search for stuff which is by-sa or so
<wolfspraul>
bartbes: do you think cc-by or cc-by-sa are good?
<bartbes>
ehm.. why me?
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: a second source is the Wikimedia Commons archive
<roh>
wolfspraul any license which allows redistribution and has clauses one can adhere to. like cc.
<bartbes>
oh that was mostly a joke
<wolfspraul>
sure, but I think we should also stay away from the -nc and -nd cc variants (non-commerical and no-derivatives)
<bartbes>
anyway, if you do use a cc-by-* remember you need to give attribution
<wolfspraul>
true, good point!
<bartbes>
anyway, I figured I should create a vid for npong
<wolfspraul>
so the nicknames or such might need to be added to the about box text
<xiangfu>
roh: thanks , just revert the commit of gmenu2x
<roh>
bartbes yes. any idea what that means in reality? link to the author in the commitlog and the package-details?
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: I think all pictures on Wikimedia Commons should be OK, I think Wikimedia Commons does not accept fair-use stuff.
<wolfspraul>
but the easiest to find nice pictures is flickr, like I said just watch the CC checkboxes. and don't forget to put the attribution somewhere.
<wolfspraul>
then it's perfect I think
<bartbes>
roh: that is always hard to decide
<bartbes>
in source distributions the copyright notice itself is good enough
<bartbes>
in binary distributions however..
<roh>
bartbes i think its one of the difficult points of cc licensing. on source its quite clear since its 'uniform' in distribution. on cc stuff you never know if its paper, file or whatever
<bartbes>
well, I guess if you simply put a LICENSES file next to the wallpapers containing all licenses you'll be fine
<roh>
true.
<bartbes>
also if they are watermarked, I doubt they'll like it if you remove that :P
<larsc>
bartbes: ncursesw, yes
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: I don't think we should commit a "config.2010-09-05" file. we have a revision history for these things.
<bartbes>
(which I always do in my wallpapers, can't stand it)
<bartbes>
larsc: well, wordgrinder doesn't show up in the menu, so I figured it might be on of the deps
<roh>
bartbes hehe.. if they are watermarked, its a bad wallpaper
<wolfspraul>
it's just "config", but then you copy that file into the image download directory same as mirko did with his images
<bartbes>
so is libncursesw correct>
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: I have remove some commit for build this commit.
<bartbes>
roh: nobody said they were originally meant as wallpapers
<bartbes>
I always use porn! :P
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: sorry, I have remove some commit for build this image.
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: I just now sure if I will commit those revert . see email attach.
<wolfspraul>
only locally?
<bartbes>
looks for an empty desk somewhere
<wolfspraul>
sure why not - commit it I'd say
<wolfspraul>
the openwrt-xburst repository is our base to create reproducible images and package feeds
<wolfspraul>
if you create images based on locally modified stuff that you don't plan to commit, not even to openwrt-xburst, then it will end in chaos
<wolfspraul>
also like I said, that config file name should just be "config", not "config.2010-09-05". the filename with date in it makes no sense to me - what is the point?
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: those commit is create by Mirko. and it's all about 0.9.32. so I guess even don't touch those commit, just modify the .config file is enough.
<wolfspraul>
mirko is on vacation and I don't want to bug him - it seems he is having a great time in Bali. I doubt we can mess up openwrt-xburst so badly that it can't be fixed when he's back next month...
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: the config file will only enable or disable options and packages. how does that relate to commits?
<wolfspraul>
what's the point of publishing the config file then, if it's based upon reverted commits that nobody else can reproduce?
<roh>
but i seem not to be able to find it online
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: let me ask you the other way round - what is wrong about reverting (and committing the reverts) in openwrt-xburst?
<wolfspraul>
if that fixes the sdl problems, and goes back to a more stable base?
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: I just never revert other people commit without let him know :)
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: I just found we don't need to revert those commits.
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: in this case, I think we can easily explain that we valued mirko's quality time in Bali over getting his opinion on these reverts, and that it is in openwrt-xburst only anyway, and not in openwrt upstream.
<bartbes>
dude..
<wolfspraul>
(if you now don't even need to revert, even better)
<bartbes>
have you ever seen your own fingers type on a keyboard
<bartbes>
that is so weird
<bartbes>
uploads to youtube
<urandom__>
bartbes where can i download the latest nlove ipk?
<bartbes>
oh I'll put it up in a sec
<bartbes>
uplaod faster!
<bartbes>
...
<bartbes>
*upload
<kyak>
xiangfu: hi! don't know what could be wrong, because centerim builds just fine for me
<xiangfu>
kyak: oh... I also remember that works fine before.
<kyak>
xiangfu: also, i reverted back to older uClibc version and it works
<urandom__>
ben nanonote: worlds smallest love-maschine
<bartbes>
anyway, I'm currently uploading a video of me playing npong to youtube
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: today I will try to build the image without revert any commit. then if it works fine. I will commit the "config" and release a new image at qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/
<kyak>
also, guys, good news: PS3 is jailbroken, and it can be done with any linux-based device that has usb-slave (currently N900 and PSP); but this also can be done with Ben, i think
<bartbes>
larsc: so should the dependency libncursesw work?
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: then you can got a work image at Monday :)
<xiangfu>
kyak: you reverted commit? or just change the .config file??
<kyak>
xiangfu: just changed the config
<bartbes>
kyak: first thing I thought when I read that as well :P
<roh>
thats where it started. avr 8bit controllers with hw--usb support
<kyak>
roh: i don't think a lot of people got avr controllers at hand
<bartbes>
I do, but not one with usb
<kyak>
xiangfu: so, what's your plan? change the uClibc version in config, rebuild the image, release it?
<larsc>
bartbes: in theory yes
<bartbes>
larsc: well, could there be another reason for it not to show up in the menuconfig (wordgrinder)
<bartbes>
(when having removed BROKEN)
<roh>
kyak i guess you are wrong. in the end its a short time thing anyhow.
<roh>
sony will release an update and 'fix their broken usb stack'
<roh>
and they will enforce it by not allowing 'not updated' machines to participate in online games again. wanna bet?
<xiangfu>
kyak: yes. that's the plan. so I will know the result tomorrow. the build need 10 hours here.
<roh>
the only thing which helps against such behaviour is: not buying criippled hardware hoping somebody jailbreaks it. imho all the fanboys who still buy apple and sony devices are the reason they still cripple hard and software.
<larsc>
bartbes: "lua luafilesystem", that causes it to only show up if lua and luafilesystem are already selected
<bartbes>
well imo ps3 is still better than x360
<bartbes>
larsc: ehm, what did I do wrong this time?
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: please commit the config file as just "config" - no date in the filename
<roh>
bartbes technically, sure. i am with you there. still: if you buy one, you are actively supporting sony's behavioir. so its your fault too.
<larsc>
bartbes: if you want it to select a package you have to write +package
<bartbes>
larsc: I should've known..
<bartbes>
roh: I don't have one
<bartbes>
:P
<xiangfu>
roh: I will take a picture from my camera. then set it as wallpaper. :) it's hard  for me to find a not copy right picture
<roh>
bartbes me neither. i was thinking about it, and then they crippled it. so i didnt.
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: sorry for my fail. will do that in future. :)
<bartbes>
yeah removing other os was really bitchy
<roh>
xiangfu thats always a sure way :)
<bartbes>
but everything is better than microsoft
<bartbes>
:P
<roh>
i dont play games which need more power than my workstation has.
<bartbes>
though steve jobs grew some horns too
<roh>
i dont even have that time to waste
<bartbes>
hehe
<roh>
bartbes i think its something we need to propagate more: dont give companies which fuck you from behind your money.
<bartbes>
though be warned, the ipks I provide may contain debugging symbols
<bartbes>
:P
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: I already take one from my camera. :)
<wolfspraul>
you can type 'flower' to test it
<wolfspraul>
yes but you will never be able to compete with these sources in quality
<roh>
bartbes btw: when it comes to stability free drivers are better as far as i can remember.
<bartbes>
oh I never had any problems with closed source nvidia drivers
<roh>
bwahahah
<roh>
try suspending
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: on the flickr advanced search page, click on (enable) all 3 creative commons related checkboxes at the bottom of the page
<roh>
or use a recent kernel.
<roh>
not possible.
<roh>
or use multihead with changing external resolutions and monitors.
<bartbes>
roh: well at least it can render stuff
<wolfspraul>
just try. search for 'flower' (click all 3 checkboxes). see what you get. all of those pictures can freely be used, as long as we attribute the author which we should always do anyway.
<roh>
helps a lot if it crashes and burns.
<bartbes>
the oss drivers haven't given me any performance when I tried them
<roh>
rendering is fine on the free drivers. i can even play some 3d-games (not the new ones of course)
<bartbes>
and as I said, I haven't had problems with the closed one in years
<roh>
but i dont care about hardcore gaming either.
<bartbes>
I do
<roh>
q3a runs fine and fast.
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: thanks.
<kyak>
xiangfu: for some reason centerim's configure finds OpenSSL from my host system and doesn't check further for gnutls-extra. This is definitely not how it's supposed to be
<bartbes>
sure, if the free drivers provided me with the performance the closed ones do I would use them
<bartbes>
but as of now the closed ones have an edge
<roh>
bartbes buy a console. get fucked. thats how it is.
<bartbes>
ooh..
<bartbes>
somebody got mad
<roh>
same fors for drm in games (one of the reasons i got off gaming)
<roh>
people who pay for drm-ed ware are part of the problem
<bartbes>
I do play them
<bartbes>
but I am not part of the problem
<roh>
i am not mad. i am just telling you my opinion ;) and how i got it.
<bartbes>
do note, that I never said anything about what I do or do not do
<bartbes>
(for those who read the log)
<bartbes>
I am simply implying I do
<bartbes>
covered his ass
<bartbes>
now.. what was I doing
<bartbes>
urandom__: so?
<roh>
isnt pro or con piracy of content. thats somebody elses problem.
<bartbes>
oh right, youtube
<bartbes>
great timing
<urandom__>
bartbes works but lacks a nice no game screen
<bartbes>
because it's 800x600
<bartbes>
:P
<bartbes>
do you have the npong .love?
<urandom__>
oh yeah makes sense
<urandom__>
yeah i downloadet it, going to test it
<roh>
hm.. youtube... is the nanonote fast enough for low-res videos in webM ?
<roh>
man i have 1000 ideas, but they all need some form of connectivity on the nanonote *sigh*
<mth>
depends on how much floating point math is needed
<roh>
mth i think there were already integer only decoders for it.
<roh>
ffmpeg supports it also
<mth>
there is an integer decoder for vorbis audio, but matybe not for the video codec
<mth>
with integer codecs 320x240 video should be doable
<roh>
"All VP8 decoding algorithms use integer math."
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: hmm... the 2010-09-15 is a test release. I will work on a better one today :) then I will commit all change . send email to list :)
<bartbes>
urandom__: and ofc the 320x240 screen size
<bartbes>
and the fact you will want to set the mouse to invisible
<urandom__>
i am used to low speed
<urandom__>
look at hist netbook
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I think the OpenWrt release will always follow the [backfire] branch,  not the trunk branch.
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: what happenede to gmu i cant quit as alt + enter?
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I think the trunk branch is only for use test , develop,
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: good :)
<xiangfu>
s/use/user
<kristianpaul>
i dont saw trunk branch, just  master and xburst
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: hmm. about gmu.  first press F1. then alt+enter will exit.
<bartbes>
that sounds like a bug
<kristianpaul>
thres keys?
<kristianpaul>
thtas not emacs !
<kyak>
:)
<mth>
roh: that sounds promising
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: the "master" is sync with openwrt trunk branch. but it's manually sync not automatic.
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: ah okay
<bartbes>
urandom__: yes, you may be used to slow opengl performance, but sdl adds a lot of overhead
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I just found that. I am not look into the source code. I think there is something wrong with "alt + enter"
<bartbes>
as I mentioned, rotation is very expensive, same goes for scaling
<bartbes>
urandom__: oh
<bartbes>
hehe
<roh>
mth ack. for the stuff from google, there are arm v5, v6 and even neon optimized routines. ffmpeg is missing these still i guess
<bartbes>
and the most important
<bartbes>
no fonts (yet) :P
<roh>
same goes for mips, if there is anything to optimizes specifically for xburst
<roh>
-s
<bartbes>
xiangfu: 10 hours?!
<kristianpaul>
roh: is vp8 royallity free?
<roh>
afaik yes. thats why google bought on2
<kristianpaul>
is better quality that ogg/ogv?
<kristianpaul>
also faster to decode?
<roh>
mpeg-la pissed them off enough so they bought on2, use vp8 for video, vorbis for audio
<bartbes>
I'm pretty sure mpeg-la is drastically searching the code and specs to find anything that is 'theirs'
<roh>
and matroska as container
<xiangfu>
bartbes: yes. "make distclean"Â Â -- "copy the config to .config" -- "make" it's need 10 hours in my pc.
<roh>
bartbes they tried that at vorbis already. without gain
<bartbes>
xiangfu: eek
<roh>
mpeg-la needs to be brought down.
<kristianpaul>
roh: you think we can run vp8 codec to play royalitie-free videos on the nanonote?
<kristianpaul>
royalitie-free encodec vides*
<roh>
kristianpaul i think so, yes. atleast i would not worry distributing a decoder
<roh>
what license the content you play has is a completely different thing
<kristianpaul>
how is that of distributing?
<kristianpaul>
ah is licenced any way?
<roh>
mpeg-la is like a mob. trying to get protection money from everybody
<xiangfu>
bartbes: no include downloads package time.
<bartbes>
even worse
<kristianpaul>
yeh wolfspraul toll me :)
<kristianpaul>
i really scared about that.. :(
<roh>
as long as we dont put any decoders or encoders for mpeg audio or video into the package or onto the qi-hw servers we should be fine
<mth>
roh: there are SIMD instructions for xburst
<roh>
mth do you know what they do, and how much faster?
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: only if the image and ogg is follow the free culture. :)
<bartbes>
*away
<xiangfu>
roh: I add those URL in commit log is not enough ?
<tuxbrain>
even if not connected you all are on my thoughs so no I never totally away
<tuxbrain>
:P
<bartbes>
xiangfu: no
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: yes but how i put that on the openwrt, there is a speacial package for it, or to include thigns in the rootfs?
<tuxbrain>
I will do a blog post today with vids of cool things doing with NN , one is the "knight rider" led from wpwrak , the other is the pong :) , any other suggestion
<tuxbrain>
?
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I just put them at "data/qi_lb60/files/"
<kristianpaul>
ah easy :)
<kristianpaul>
thanks !
<xiangfu>
bartbes, roh: oh. understand.
<kristianpaul>
tuxbrain: :)
<kristianpaul>
gusnao: morning dude !
<gusnao>
nothing kristianpaul
<roh>
xiangfu dunno. thats what some lawyer would need to sort out. i think distributing the attribution with the files is the only thing to make sure.
<kristianpaul>
gusnao: what happened?
<kristianpaul>
gusnao: no sound, no...?
<gusnao>
no nada
<kristianpaul>
ah?
<gusnao>
me equivoque
<gusnao>
jajajaj
<kristianpaul>
ok
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: if you fix the uclibc version in config, don't forget to also update config.xbboot
<gusnao>
es que ya entre pero con telnet a mi nanonote kanzure
<alcy>
tuxbrain, might wanna fix a link pointing to a mailing list post on your blog ( nanonote finds it equilibrium or something).
<gusnao>
kristianpaul, haora solo me falta darle el passwd?
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: yes.
<kristianpaul>
gusnao: yes problably
<bartbes>
roh: I'm pretty sure it needs to be in the distribution
<bartbes>
so just adding it as a commit message won't cut it
<kristianpaul>
viric_: thta one image from wikipedia commons
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: watch the boot time. I believe there was something mirko did that improved boot time by about 10 seconds. the boot time in 2010-08-26 was pretty nice.
<kristianpaul>
viric_: oops
<kristianpaul>
bartbes: ^
<tuxbrain>
alcy: fixed I think is due the mailing list fusion... so I think I will have to review a lot of posts ...
<bartbes>
kristianpaul: that is not that bad...
<alcy>
tuxbain, probably yeah.
<xiangfu>
kyak: centerim compile fine . thanks.
<tuxbrain>
hey anyone knows how to make an ubi file with a rootfs already setup?
<kristoffer>
tuxbrain, rafa :)
<tuxbrain>
hehehe anyone else that is actully online? :P
<tuxbrain>
actually
<wpwrak>
groan. clubbing takes large chunks out of your work day
<kyak>
xiangfu: great!
<kristoffer>
tuxbrain, he is screening, but you could post him a message and he will most likely look at it when he gets a chance. His train is leaving for prag in a couple of hours so I bet he will check in soon.
<tuxbrain>
ok then, rafa what are the steps to do an ubifs image for flash in nano from a rootfs :)
<wpwrak>
roh: (discordian society) nice :) read the illuminatus trilogy then ?
<xiangfu>
is building the new image now.
<bartbes>
right, see you in 10 hours then..
<xiangfu>
see you.
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: 10hours why so long?
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: how long in your PC? "make distclean" then "make"
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: ahh do i need distclean?
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I have test yesterday. it's around 10 hours.
<kristianpaul>
well i think was 5 last time, not sure
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: i want do same you do
<kristianpaul>
is the branch xburst?
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: just build the OpenWrt release image. we always "make distclean" first. then "make" form 0. :)
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: yes.
<kristianpaul>
jut git pull also update the packges using the script?
<kristianpaul>
cause last time gave me SDL seg fault..
<kristianpaul>
ok
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I have one script file for build. I can send it to you :)
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: thanks i really want follow you on this
<kyak>
xiangfu: a did time make, it took 3h47m, all sources were already downloaded
<xiangfu>
kyak: my pc mem is only 1G, cpu is E2180Â Â @ 2.00GHz. what about your PC??
<kyak>
xiangfu: mine is Pentium(R) Dual-Core  CPU      E6500  @ 2.93GHz, 2G memory (it's Shuttle K45SE)
<kristianpaul>
wow
<xiangfu>
wow
<kyak>
not so wow :)
<xiangfu>
if it's 4G. it's so wow.
<wpwrak>
how lame ;-) (Q6600 with 8 GB here. no longer afraid of large build :)
<kyak>
wpwrak: did you measure? :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: i did an openwrt build a while ago. didn't feel excessively long. maybe an hour or two,
<alcy>
pity that I have a core i7, 6G RAM, 3 Ghz (did take it to 4), and its lying lifeless. waiting to shift to new home, will definitely put it to use then :)
<kyak>
that's cool! you should provide access to this machine to xiangfu, for faster build :)
<kyak>
(that was for wpwrak)
<wpwrak>
kyak: wolfgang should get him a faster machine. it's not *that* expensive :)
<kyak>
that's right
<kyak>
the hardware is pretty affordable now
<xiangfu>
kyak: I can access one big server before, it's 8-cpus, 32GB mem.  but now I only have on little PC. :)
<kristianpaul>
i have an amd 1Ghz 800MB ram, should i cry?
<kristianpaul>
i took like 5 hours last time i measure
<kristianpaul>
s/it
<kyak>
yes, cry for 24 hours, that would take you to build owrt :)
<kyak>
oh!
<kyak>
very good
<kyak>
i used to have Celeron 600 with ~350 Mb RAM for several years as my home server.. horrible years :)
<xiangfu>
hmm. . I am not very sure it will take 10 hours. because it's build two openwrt at same time. I have setup a cron job.
<xiangfu>
I think yesterday I build the openwrt the cron jobs also start.
<kristianpaul>
my server is 500Mhz, 256Mb ram 4GB flash 256Ram, and i still no cry ;)
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: but i guess get the sources take some?
<kristianpaul>
make clean dont erase sources isnt?
<wpwrak>
cool. wrong package definition for a transistor :-(
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: right.
<kristianpaul>
oh better
<xiangfu>
I have added the time command this time. let's see how long it take.
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: do you have experiences with antennas for getting UHF/VHF telemetry from satellites?
<kristianpaul>
sorry about the OT ;)
<kristianpaul>
in a PCB btw
<kyak>
libphysfs won't compile
<kristianpaul>
nlove?
<kyak>
cmake: command not found
<kyak>
yes, it's nlove's dependancy
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: i'm a total RF rookie :)
<kyak>
bartbes: any hints? maybe dependency to cmake is missing?
<kyak>
or, why would it want cmake from my host system?
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: so i'm newbie :)
<kristianpaul>
just install it :)
<kyak>
bartbes: i've installed cmake now on my host system.. but it seems wrong that toolchain is using some tools from my host system
<kyak>
error: lua.h: No such file or directory
<kyak>
this is nlove. perhaps missing dependency for lua?
<bartbes>
you see, normally I would try to build it from a clean dir
<bartbes>
but.. I am *not* going to create another toolchain
<bartbes>
they are hell *and* huge
<kyak>
you don't need to
<kyak>
just make distclean :)
<bartbes>
then I need to rebuild
<bartbes>
deadly
<kyak>
but do it every once in a while
<kyak>
just to make sure everything is consistent
<kyak>
and as discussed above, it usually takes no longer than 5-6 hours
<bartbes>
...
<wpwrak>
bartbes: be careful what you wish for. if you read up a bit on utilitarian philosophy, you'll also find universal happiness as the principal goal. one thought experiment there is that one could improve happiness by killing all the unhappy people. repeat as many times as necessary for the less-then-average-happy.
<bartbes>
wait what does that have to do with me
<bartbes>
I already kill happy people
<wpwrak>
bartbes: ah, that was "bas" on the list, not "bes", sorry
<wpwrak>
you guys have to work on your hamming distances :-)
<bartbes>
I have had this name for ages!
<kyak>
wpwrak: also, my "first nick" is BaS
<kyak>
but it's so widely used
<kyak>
so i had to come up with this
<bartbes>
bas is a name where I live
<wpwrak>
i went under "Oberdaemon" for a good while, inspired by all the whatever_DAEMON processes you found on a Vax/VMS system. never had much trouble with uniqueness :)
<kyak>
is it Denmark?
<bartbes>
it is not
<wpwrak>
wpwrak is more Unix style, though. like awk :)
<kyak>
unlike awk, i don't know how to pronounce "wpwrak" :)
<bartbes>
me neither
<wpwrak>
it's for typing, not for pronouncing :)
<bartbes>
but how to pronounce kyak? is it key-yak, is it kayak, what is it?
<wpwrak>
i would use "werner", but that one's almost almost taken everywhere, even though it's not the most common first name
<bartbes>
last name possibly
<wpwrak>
s/almost almost/almost always/
<kyak>
bartbes: if only i knew ::)
<wpwrak>
naw, even less common as last name
<kyak>
probably kayak
<bartbes>
why do so many people have names they can't pronounce..
<kyak>
because it's IRC-only
<wpwrak>
because they have to be globally unique :)
<kyak>
i wonder how would untypable, unpronouncable nickname would look like
<wpwrak>
be thankful that we don't use md5 hashes of pictures of body parts we consider significant :)
<bartbes>
untypably?
<bartbes>
*e
<bartbes>
how do you create one of those on irc?
<bartbes>
:P
<kyak>
that's the question!: )
<bartbes>
only non-printing characters
<bartbes>
but I doubt the server would let you do that
<kyak>
i had a custom unrealircd server, where you could use utf-8 nicknames
<kyak>
that was fun!
<wpwrak>
does IRC support UTF8 ?
<bartbes>
semi
<bartbes>
you can send stuff over it in any encoding you want
<bartbes>
but most servers only accept commands in.. ascii, I guess
<kristianpaul>
ññ
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: yes^
<kristianpaul>
no?
<kyak>
wpwrak: do you really think chinese people are not using IRC? :)
<bartbes>
today I saw someone speak russian in one of the channels I'm in
<bartbes>
(I own it too!)
<kristianpaul>
they do i saw before chineese charastes in freenode
<bartbes>
well, saw
<bartbes>
he didn't use utf-8
<bartbes>
so I only saw the wrong-encoding char.. thingy
<wpwrak>
kyak: good point
<bartbes>
anyway, irc itself doesn't care
<bartbes>
it just relays
<kyak>
bartbes: ?@825B, :0: 45;0?
<bartbes>
that is utf-8
<kyak>
indeed
<bartbes>
and I wish I didn't keep forgetting how to pronounce cyrillic chars
<bartbes>
I really want to learn russian once
<bartbes>
good thing I have a whole life ahead of me
<bartbes>
gets hit by a car
<kyak>
--)
<bartbes>
about that, did you hear about the guy who died in a race.. ehm.. today? yesterday? not too long ago anyway
<bartbes>
ah, found the channel again ;)
<kyak>
mm, no.. are you surprised?
<bartbes>
well, it doesn't happen too often someone dies
<bartbes>
ofc it happens more often on bikes.. I guess
<wpwrak>
poke is at svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/poke/
<wpwrak>
Ornotermes: ^
<wpwrak>
useful tool. worth to have in packages, imho
<wpwrak>
(useful for poking around in registers in a way lars would call "pure evil" ;-)
<Ornotermes>
i can somehow understan that :P
<Ornotermes>
could be a quick crach if one changes the io for ram or storage stuff:P
<wpwrak>
oh yes :)
<Ornotermes>
and maybe even permanent damage...
<wpwrak>
yup. there ought to be something you can blow up :)
<Ornotermes>
otherwise we will have to make an explosive uSD card ;)
<wpwrak>
it's fast, does exactly what you tell it to do, and it's dangerous. all the characteristics a real man's toy should have :-)
<wpwrak>
s/exactly/anything/Â Â Â Â # even better :)
<Ornotermes>
wpwrak: package description for poke?
<wpwrak>
heh :)
<kyak>
hm i wonder if it's possible to make some progress bar for reflah_ben.sh
<kyak>
would be great
<mth>
wpwrak: it's good to have that ability to try out things, but when developers start writing user mode programs to rely on direct register access, that is evil
<mth>
especially when a GP2X port is run on a Dingoo and it pokes into /dev/mem
<mth>
(GP2x is ARM arch)
<mth>
(and Dingoo is much like the NanoNote in hardware)
<wpwrak>
mth: yeah, such things should at least be hidden in some library
<mth>
a library would still be breaking the layers
<wpwrak>
mth: user space directly accessing registers is not without precedent. e.g., consider X.
<mth>
but it's wrong for X too
<wpwrak>
that is debatable :-)
<wpwrak>
the objective shuold be to do things in a manner that doesn't cause ill side-effects. if the limitations of a user-space implementation are acceptable, why not.
<wpwrak>
one of the big issues is of course guaranteed cleanup.
<mth>
the only way to get no ill side effects is if control is done by one unique user space process and the kernel does not touch the device
<mth>
with X, that was not the case, since the kernel runs a text mode or frame buffer on the graphics card
<tuxbrain>
in a multitasking enviroment as jlime, it's alittle anoying when you want to listen music while using other apps, then gmu disables screen and you must return to the gmu screen to reenable it, I know this behaviourcan be changed throug gmu config file but It can be useful to change it directly on the gmu while playing, to renable the screen off thing when you just want to usit just as player again. it easier to press alt+s than edit a text file
<GNUtoo|laptop>
hmmm
<GNUtoo|laptop>
#Â Â Silicon labs FXS port chipset
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ah no sorry
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I'm tired
<_wejp>
tuxbrain, oh ok, i see. i know what you mean
<GNUtoo|laptop>
how can that do echo cancelation?
<_wejp>
i already have an idea what to do about that
<GNUtoo|laptop>
what is FXS? is it the port for the phone or the port for the phone line?
<_wejp>
i'll modify gmu such that it will only disable the backlight when it has the application focus
<GNUtoo|laptop>
I always confond with the other thing FXO?
<_wejp>
so when you switch to another terminal it will not shut off the backlight
<GNUtoo|laptop>
so jlime works, nice
<GNUtoo|laptop>
do you have X?
<tuxbrain>
_wejp:Â Â hey thats more cool than my option :) time to deliver?
<tuxbrain>
GNUtoo|laptop:Â Â yes :)
<_wejp>
i've already implemented that half ;)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
wow Xorg on nanonote
<kristianpaul>
GNUtoo|laptop: asterisk do some echo cancelation i guess, there is not line !
<_wejp>
don't know exactly when i will release the next version, but shouldn't take too long :)
<kristianpaul>
GNUtoo|laptop: just plug the phone and call :)
<GNUtoo|laptop>
kristianpaul, ok , but you have to use the proprietary software for that?
<kristianpaul>
GNUtoo|laptop: for what?
<GNUtoo|laptop>
kristianpaul, echo cancelation
<GNUtoo|laptop>
ah sorry
<GNUtoo|laptop>
no FXO line
<GNUtoo|laptop>
so no need rihgt?
<kristianpaul>
ono FXO
<kristianpaul>
not sure if asterisk uses non-free sofware
<kristianpaul>
i jsut was following the project and noticed this
<GNUtoo|laptop>
basically for echo cancelation there are proprietary plugins
<kristianpaul>
not sure where are thje designs
<GNUtoo|laptop>
that you have to buy
<kristianpaul>
ok
<GNUtoo|laptop>
but...
<kristianpaul>
so i dont know
<GNUtoo|laptop>
with the previous hardware they did
<GNUtoo|laptop>
they developped one in software
<GNUtoo|laptop>
that was free
<GNUtoo|laptop>
but it required a blackfin cpu
<GNUtoo|laptop>
at least it seems
<GNUtoo|laptop>
the IPX04
<GNUtoo|laptop>
etc...
<GNUtoo|laptop>
if I remember well
<GNUtoo|laptop>
they also had a free codec
<GNUtoo|laptop>
that seemed to be great
<kristianpaul>
:)
<Textmode>
tuxbrain: okay, I have a sdcard with 512 flagged as swap, what next?
<GNUtoo|laptop>
read part of the asterisk book
<Textmode>
tuxbrain: or rather, how do I make jlime use it.
<tuxbrain>
on a console : swapon /dev/whateveristhepartitiononsd
<Textmode>
tuxbrain: so, swapon /dev/mmcblk0p1?
<tuxbrain>
if swap is on that partition, then yes
<Textmode>
invalid argument :/
<tuxbrain>
then is not on that partition :) try mmcblk0p2
<Textmode>
...nothing
<Textmode>
is there a command to check what's been assigned where?
<Textmode>
I guess I could copy the required files onto the internal store, then reformat the card as entirely swap (no skin of my nose)
<Textmode>
though thats hardly a long term solution.
<Textmode>
do you think that would work?
<Textmode>
tuxbrain: okay, goodnews, the swap mounted, so I guess I have swap now. bad news. doesn't seem to have done any good. opkg still dies with the same error.
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: can you point me the right .config then to let it building before i go  bed?
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: a stopwatch will be really usefull
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I can send the one I am using. then we can build at same time.  it's not commit to server before I success build the image. if the build is ok. I will commit that. :)
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: sure, please send
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: or patebin it
<kristianpaul>
pastebin*
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: you shouldhave a devel branch even for this things are not so stable yet i think..
<kristianpaul>
but is up to you, just a tought
<kristianpaul>
make distclean && make V=99
<kristianpaul>
gn8 !
<kristianpaul>
thanks xiangfu
<gustavo>
kristianpaul, ya me sirvio
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: remember copy the ".config" to openwrt-xburst folder after make distclean. the distclean will delete the .config file.
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: ah ok
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: thanks i was about to leave the chair
<kristianpaul>
gustavo: good
<gustavo>
thanks
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: did you used time command befoire the make?
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I use the "date" command.
<kristianpaul>
ok
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: :)
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: why?
<kristianpaul>
hwo it measure the build time?
<kristianpaul>
ahh
<kristianpaul>
you compare
<kristianpaul>
manually
<kristianpaul>
ok
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: I use the time before. but never got a result. so I just use "date >> compile.log"Â Â to include the script file.
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: the "time" should works fine.
<kristianpaul>
yeah sort of same here
<kristianpaul>
i better try other time ;)
<kristianpaul>
zzzZ
<kristianpaul>
time command not build
<kristianpaul>
building now and me zZZ
<Textmode>
I'm having issues installing ipk's on jlime, specifically opkg dying a horrible death with a glibc error (double free, or corruption)