azonenberg changed the topic of #homecmos to: Homebrew CMOS and MEMS foundry design | Wiki: http://homecmos.drawersteak.com/wiki/Main_Page | Repository: http://code.google.com/p/homecmos/ | Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/homecmos-logs/
<Sync_> SpeedEvil: solar output is a lot better than that
<SpeedEvil> Sync_: not so much at the bottom of the venusian atmosphere
<SpeedEvil> With your solar panels at 500C
<Sync_> well, temperature is going to be an issue
<Sync_> but effective global flux is roughly 55% of the earths
<Sync_> so you'd get over 100W/m²
<SpeedEvil> Where are you finding 55% of earths?
<SpeedEvil> Also, I was meaning on the output of the panels, not input
<Sync_> sure but that's the number to compare it to
<SpeedEvil> The source I found said 10%.
<Sync_> albedo of venus is .8 instead of earths .3
<SpeedEvil> Err - yes - it doesn't work that way
<Sync_> mostly for the flux
<Sync_> sure it is a rough estimate
<SpeedEvil> The atmosphere on venus is optically thick.
<SpeedEvil> It absorbs a _lot_ of light
<SpeedEvil> ^and oops -I forgot the increased insolation at the top
<SpeedEvil> So more like 20%, not 10%
<SpeedEvil> But ~20W/m^2 of panel (averaging over day-night) isn't great for what you'd like to be a compact rover
<Sync_> the numbers seem to vary widely
<Sync_> some jpl presentation says 17W/m² at the surface
<Sync_> which is going to suck hard
<Sync_> because you need like 10m² or surface to generate any meaningful power
<Sync_> especially at that temperature
<Sync_> thermal generation would be more efficient
<Sync_> there the flux is 15kW/m²
<SpeedEvil> You can't generate power from the heat.
<SpeedEvil> You need some different temperature to work against
<SpeedEvil> Wind is another option - but that's equally nasty
<Sync_> I suppose you can generate power through the heat as you can get a differential in the shadow
<Sync_> it is not going to be great
<Sync_> but it will work
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<nmz787> anyone here attneding M&M?
<nmz787> I was there today at the vendor area... it is like, the ideal mall
<nmz787> shopping mall
<nmz787> here are some papers http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/M&M%202015/72437/TOC.html
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<SpeedEvil> Sync_: there is little shadow - the glow comes pretty evenly voer the sky
<Sync_> you can make shadow with your device
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<SpeedEvil> yes, but that doesn't much help with a few watts a square meter incoming, and very little day/night temperature variation
<Sync_> a few watts? thermal flux is much higher as I said
<SpeedEvil> Yes - but that's not thermal flux that varies
<SpeedEvil> And the thermal flux from the rock is as high as the sky
<SpeedEvil> Consider trying to make power in your oven from the thermal variations. It's hard.
<SpeedEvil> I guess they can heavily minimise stuff in the cold volume. For example, just flash, an 'android stick' class CPU, the complex non PA bits of RF.
<SpeedEvil> If it was just the temperature, it wouldn't be so bad from a passive cooling point of view
<SpeedEvil> You can get a moderate amount of time with a well-insulated vessel boiling ice. But waters doesn't boil at 80 bar really