azonenberg changed the topic of #homecmos to: Homebrew CMOS and MEMS foundry design | Wiki: http://homecmos.drawersteak.com/wiki/Main_Page | Repository: http://code.google.com/p/homecmos/ | Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/homecmos-logs/
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<_Sync_> diginet: it is far cheaper to get professional masks done
<_Sync_> pretty cheap at 500nm
<diginet> how much would a 500nm set cost?
<_Sync_> a single mask runs about 200-300€
<diginet> where would I buy these?
<_Sync_> we're getting our masks from vistec
<_Sync_> but yeah a direct exposure system would be neat
<diginet> _Sync_: so how much do you think it would cost to produce something like say, an 8-bit microcontroller at 500nm?
<_Sync_> err
<_Sync_> still quite a lot, if you actually want working micros :D
<diginet> I guess I was under the understanding that the masks were the most expensive parts, I guess not?
<_Sync_> it probably is the most expensive single direct item apart from machinery
<_Sync_> but the thing is you will invest quite a lot of money until you get your process stable
<_Sync_> lets say you need 20 masks or something, then you are at 4k for the masks
<_Sync_> given your layout is perfect from the beginning
<diginet> well for example cmp.imag.fr offers a MPW service for 350nm. It's about 2000 euros for 20 chips I think
<_Sync_> then you buy wafers in 25 boxes for around 300-2500€ each
<diginet> yeah
<diginet> so let me approach the question from a different angle: for something like a mid-line 8-bit microcontroller, how many would you need to make to get below, say, $10/chip
<diginet> ?
<_Sync_> that's an interesting question
<_Sync_> my gut feeling is around 10k
<diginet> yeah I've been trying to research it, but it's difficult to get conclusive answers
<diginet> I see
<_Sync_> 10-100k I guess, I can ask some people that know the answer
<diginet> that would be great, thanks
<diginet> I think if somehow the cost could be brought down to something like $1000 for 100 chips, that would open up a lot of doora
<diginet> *doors
<diginet> $1,000 is pretty doable for crowdfunding/group buys
<_Sync_> well, there is companies that optimize exactly in that but they cannot get the cost down that much
<diginet> hmm
<diginet> is there anyone still doing general purpose 1micron?
<diginet> And more importantly, would there be any meaningful price break for something at that range?
<_Sync_> sure, there are plenty of fabs doing 1µ
<diginet> do you think 1u is substantially cheaper than 350nm?
<_Sync_> actually I'm not too sure